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Jitterbug Jamboree in Thousand Oaks, CA March 25-27

SwingOrama Forum: Events: Old stuff: Jitterbug Jamboree in Thousand Oaks, CA March 25-27

By Chris on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Well, we're back from this workshop and just wanted to share how the weekend went.

We took Paul and Sharon's Groovy moves class and it was a lot of fun. Working with some funky body movements to moderate bluesy music. Most of all us San Diegans would've enjoyed that. We also took Jonathan and Sylvia's Flyin' Lindy class which was also interesting. A lot different from any swingout I've ever done. It's not smooth like Hollywood and it isn't down like Savoy. Dean Collins invented this style and it is quite fun to do, once you get it. I'll have to work on it. The rest of the workshops we didn't do, because we danced mostly. In between each class was open dancing, so we mostly danced all day and night long. Late nights went till about 2am or so. It was all DJ'd music from the likes of Paul Overton and several LA DJ's. The music was really good overall, the tempos were usually in the 160 -220 bpm area (which I really liked). Paul of course played bluesier stuff, but even some of it was at 180 or 190bpm. A lot of boogie woogie piano music that just rocked!! Great follows from all over, LA, Sacramento, Arizona, St. Louis to name a few. I had two awesome dances with Baerbl and 2 with Audrey Wilson. It was great to dance with new people, I can't wait til swing break! I wish I spoke with Valerie to give me some forms or advertisements for Swing Break while we were up there.

Now on to the competitions. Unfortunately, we didn't make it up there in time to register for the Jack n Jill, but Shana and I did the couples contest on Sat. Billy And Susan did the advanced couples contest(only dancers that had placed in a major dance competition could compete in that contest). They, unfortunately, did not get a callback for the finals L. Shana and I ripped on the prelims and made it into the finals of the novice couples contest. We did our best, but didn't place in the top three. After the award ceremony we were able to talk to the judges adn find out why they scored us as the did. This was really a plus, b/c we could find out what mistakes we made to get the scores we got. This placement is out of 11 fianlists. Audrey Wilson placed us 1st, Sharon Ash placed us 3rd, Mrs. Collins (Dean's Wife) placed us 2nd, Frieda(dancer who danced with Dean Collins back in theday) placed us 10th, and Sylvia Sykes placed us 11th. A wide range of numbers, huh? The answers from Frieda were that she had space left over to fill and since Shana and I went 9th out of 11, Frieda had already chosen who she thought was the best (pretty fair, huh?). Sylvia's answer was ligit, she placed us first in the prelims, but she noticed our timing was awful in the final. I will admit it was, we were both nervous. We had to basically dance on command, Shana doesn't like that what-so-ever. Overall, the contest was extremely stressful, not just the contest itself but the stress between Shana and me.

Margaret went up for the invitational Jack and Jill. Her, Billy, and Susan competed and Margaret was the only one that made it to the finals. Billy and Susan did an excellent job, but I guess the judes had their eyes on other dancers. I thought that some of the dancers in the finals should not have been there and I felt the same about the advanced couples contest, Billy and Susan should have been in the finals. Margaret was drawn to dance with a guy from Pasadena by the name of Ron Jeremy(I think). He looked so nervous and Margaret said later that he was shaking like a leaf. He over worked her and their connection was completely off. I felt so bad for her, we all were hoping for her to team up with a dancer that would give her freedom, but that is the luck of the draw. The couple that won, Steve and Denise, were actually a couple that competes together, another "lucky draw."

San Diego just didn't get the breaks at this contestL.

We all came back with a new view of things, especially how subjective dancing is, and judging can be. It was a long weekend and ready to start this week off on a new foot.

To add:
The swing jams on Sat. night were intense! LA dancers really know how to entertain a crowd! Though their spontaneous creativity lacks during the jam(because most moves are choreographed), but they are tight as hell! They really sell their scene up there, they might not be the friendlist of people, but as a group they seem pretty close. They seem to almost market their scene everytime there are venues like this. Any opportunity to do a swing jam they make it happen and they make sure they look good and clean with all of their moves. I'm not saying that we should mimic this at all b/c we're not LA, but they do bring a certain energy level to a dance.

By Chris on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 02:49 pm: Edit

On LA people "not being the friendliest people," that is what I heard other people say. The people from LA that I have encountered have been very friendly to me. In my opinion they are friendly people, others' opinions might differ.

By Ron on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Nice review!

Tempos at 160 to 220 BPM? I'm glad I didn't go this year.

Yeah, we don't have a lot of jam sessions here. There are only a few people who really like them, like you, Chris, and Susan, and some others. So they don't tend to happen as much. Once you guys get done, everyone stares at each other and wonders when they can stop standing in a circle clapping, and get back to dancing.

By Valerie Yau on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 11:22 pm: Edit

I agree LA dancers are really tight in their jams! I think much of it has to do with the fact that many of the more experienced LA dancers have their own dance partners, usually their significant other that they can practice routines with...and I think that's one major reason why people will say they're "not the friendliest people"... because they'll dance mostly w/ their boyfriend or girlfriend, and perhaps those in their circle of friends, but won't initiate any dancing with people outside of that circle.

For the most part, from my own experience, they are courteous when I ask them to dance... but much of the time I don't feel as welcomed 'with open arms' as I would in let's say San Francisco or Seattle. Those that I have danced with don't seem to have much interest in getting to know other people outside of their group - I guess to me a good number of them seem clickish. I have met a few that are definite exceptions and have been very friendly to me. I have also met the exact opposite - one guy I asked to dance actually blew me off...ignored me and then preceded to laugh in my face. I noticed later that he only danced with his girlfriend and no one else...too bad, his loss :)

anyhow, yeah, they can really put on a show, esp. if image is a greater priority...i think there's more pressure up there to put on a good show if you're a good dancer. anyone think otherwise?

By Reuben Brown on Tuesday, February 29, 2000 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Valerie and Chris... would you mind if I posted your prospective on Jive Junction where the LA dancers would actually see it? I think it would make for some interesting discussion there.

By HopMichael on Tuesday, February 29, 2000 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Chris,

Thanks for the report from the front lines up in Thousand Oaks. Did you get any video of the dancing?

Congratulations on making it into the finals round! Sounds like you and Shana put on a good show.

Congrats to Susan, Billy, and Margaret for a good showing up at Jitterbug Jam!

By Valerie Yau on Tuesday, February 29, 2000 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Reuben, what is your opinion on my perspective? I imagine if you posted what I said onto your site, dancers who read it might naturally take offense to my comments, even though they weren't meant to create tension...

By Chris on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 01:38 am: Edit

Reuben,
My comment about the scene up there had the intention of being a compliment. I could see some of the dancers up there taking offense to my comment about "spontaneous creativity," it was never intended to be an insult. San Fransisco prides itself on groovy bluesy savoy musicality, LA might not. I'm not saying that one is any better than the other. Here in San Diego, the majority of the dancers connect more with the style of the San Frans than the LA dancers.

I can't stress enough that I love the intensity that the LA dancers have!!

By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 09:36 am: Edit

I didn't say there was anything wrong with your posts at all. In fact, I think there are a few very interesting points in them that I think a number of dancers up here should read. Again, good discussion could come from these two posts of yours... so what do ya say, may I cut and paste?

By Valerie Yau on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 10:18 am: Edit

Reuben, I don't mind if you cut & paste my above post onto Jive Junction - just as long as you introduce the topic w/ the words in your last post....that you're doing it because you feel like it brings up some interesting points that would be good for discussion. But I won't be surprised if someone gets offended and again, those are not my intentions. But I am curious to know what their perspective is on the whole thing...

By Chris on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 10:24 am: Edit

In short, ditto as Val.

By Chris on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 10:33 am: Edit

Reuben,
just make sure you include my post following my original post above about "how I have not experienced unfriendly people, but other's might have."
Thanks

By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 11:09 am: Edit

No problem.

It's up on Jive Junction now with a little editting in an effort to save space. (I just took out things like IP address and dates, etc.)

It's under General Discussion, then "San Diegain's Review Jitterbug Jam."

Thanks.

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Where to start....? First, concerning the advanced couples contest and who made the finals. Regardless of who else 'should have' made the finals, the outcome of the contest would not have changed. As far as third place goes, if we are throwing out opinions here, Evan and Emily should have gotten third.

The Invitatioanal Jack-N-Jill was the next topic, I believe. The people who got 'robbed' were Joan and Derrick. They should have placed first.

Steve picked his partner through 'luck of the draw' and didn't have the flawless dance he should have, considering the type of contest it was. I don't feel they deserved to place where they did, even though they are excellent dancers and my good friends.

Second place is neither here nor there, and could have gone to those who placed third just as easily. I do feel others could have and/or should have placed instead.

I don't know you, so I am not sure how to take your comment re: 'Ron Jeremy'. But...

I don't recall any 50yr old porno star taking part in the contest. The lead who danced with Margaret is named Jeremy Otth.

I am so sorry you 'felt bad' for her, but actually, I know of more people who 'felt bad' for Jeremy. He was the only lead out there who actually took a chance. We also hoped he would have teamed up with a dancer that would have been able to 'take control' of her freedom. But the 'luck of the draw' teamed him up with the weakest dancer on the panel. He might have placed had he had a follow who could carry him through the song and dance faster than 130bpm. Doesn't sound too nice, coming from this end, does it? I don't think so either.

I am sorry, but I felt the need to come to the defense of one of the best dancers in LA. Or do you not know that?

You said he was shaking? Maybe he was nervous. Do you not get nervous before you dance in a contest? I thought you said you did in your post. I didn't see anyone making fun of you on here.

I don't understand the comment: 'the judges had their eyes on other dancers'. Sounds to me like you are just upset that certain people didn't make the finals. The judges look at everyone, that's their job. I know, I have judged many contests.

Your comments thus far lead me to ask the question:

"Would you like some cheese with that whine?"

'San Diego just didn't get the breaks in this contest?'
Come on. I can say that LA dancers wouldn't WANT a 'break' from any judge. WHY? You ask.

Because WE DON'T NEED THEM TO WIN. That's why.

Listen, SD has come a long way in the last year and you should be proud that your city was included instead of complaining, insulting other dancers and making excuses.

Now on to the jam session. Have you ever seen a Harvest Moon Ball on video (30's-40's)? Do you think that the people who danced in those contests didn't 'practice' or 'choreograph' all the moves and flying arials they did? Do you really think they just made that stuff up 'on the spot?'

When you are on the social dance floor, don't you lead sequences of moves that you have already learned prior to doing them? Does your partner not follow these sequences, already knowing a certain order in which you normally do them in? It is still lead and follow. And there is still spontaenaity. And still room for error.

So, if you didn't see any of the LA dancers make any mistakes, it's probably because they didn't make any this time around. Also, because we are good leads and follows, are serious about what we do and work hard at something we love.

Besides the fact that we have some of the best dancers in THE WORLD right here in LA!

I realize you are probably a beginner and don't know what you are saying. But we don't 'market our scene every time there are dances like this'. We just dance from the HEART and work hard at something that is our passion. That's why we get people's attention-like yours!

It's funny that you say we 'lack spontaneous creativity during the jam (because most moves are choreographed)' and then go on to contradict yourself by saying:

'Any opportunity to do a swing jam they make it happen and they make sure they look good and clean with all of their moves. I'm not saying we should mimic this at all b/c we are not LA, but they do bring a certain energy level to a dance.'

That sounds pretty spontaneous to me-besides the comments I've already made on that subject.

You should definitely NOT take your own advice and you SHOULD mimic LA. I believe that's how you guys got to where you are at today! And you have definitely improved in the last couple of years! Every group of dancers, when given the opportunity, should start a jam-no matter what style or level!

I know the tone here might sound a bit hostile, but it isn't. I am just giving a long-winded response to a long-winded report on the Jitterbug Jam and some personal comments made toward a particular group of people. (Of which I happen to be a part of for the last 5 years!)

I will end by saying that I did not mean to insult any one individually or as a group.(as I am sure you did not mean to insult 'us'.)

And my opinions do not necessarily reflect all the dancers of LA County, but probably most would agree,,,hee hee hee.

Have fun responding! I'm sure you all will! ;)

By HopMichael on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Flame on !

-Johnny Storm, the original Human Torch

By NancyAnne on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 05:54 pm: Edit

Hey Alicia,
It's great to find you posting here!

A big smile and glee to hear from the Queen of
Rugcutting.

By Valerie Yau on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 01:07 am: Edit

See Reuben, what did I tell ya? You've got Alicia Milo going off on us... you're probably enjoying it huh? :)

Alicia...from my side, Chris' comments on LA jam circles weren't negative at all...he was simply stating his point of view on the subject. Most of what he said were compliments in fact...the jams were "intense" and "tight as hell"... you all "really know how to entertain", everything looks "good and clean", and you bring a "certain energy level to the dance".

I can see how you would take his comment negatively that, "their spontaneous creativity lacks during the jam (because most moves are choreographed)"...he's referring to the fact that 'LA' style dancing is more structured compared to 'san diego' style dancing. and like I said previously, I believe a lot of this has to do with the fact that many experienced l.a. dancers choose to have dance partners to practice with and most san diegans don't. When we mention 'choreographed moves', we're talking about footwork sequences, break-aways, structured stylings...not the general dance itself. of course all lindy hop is based on the concept of lead and follow - we won't argue with that and we never have... maybe i can better explain this with an example:

you have a L.A. couple out on the dance floor... they break away. what comes next? the follow is LEAD into this breakaway... she knows EXACTLY what her partner wants her to do for the next few eight counts because she's worked hard to CHOREOGRAPH this SEQUENCE with him a million times before...some boogie backs, boogie forwards, a few chicken pecks, something of their own...They pull off their fancy footwork with great dynamics - it's clean, they're tight, they look fabulous...

...while on the other side of the dance floor two San Diegans break away...the follow is LEAD into it. what comes next? she's a little nervous because she doesn't know....so she just lets the music move her body for her. each of them play off of one another not knowing what the other will do next...it's not necessarily all crisp and clear, but it's sure in-the-moment creative response!

i hope that clarifies it somewhat. even though you mock us for stating that we don't mean to "offend", our statements are truly not meant to be negative. we are merely stating our perceptions...even through the writing you can hear the clear difference between our statements and the hostile tone in your post.

and even though my expertise is not in 'hollywood/smooth' style, i am just as fond of it as i am of 'savoy' style and i continue to learn and love the best of both worlds...they are essentially the same dance, but they have their differences and we are just discussing what these differences are. where savoy lacks, hollywood makes up, and where hollywood lacks, savoy makes up...

Alicia, I have never met you but have seen you around and you seemed to be a friendly person. It's unfortunate that you think we should mimic LA - diversity is good...open-minded-ness is good... it doesn't matter to me how long you've been dancing, how much you've instructed or how well-known you are, whether or not you've judged a contest...your post puts LA one notch back towards the "unfriendly" side on my scale and makes you come off as a completely narrow-minded and conceited person. I bet if I met you in person my views would change...so hopefully I'll get that chance sometime in the near future.

-Valerie-

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 02:16 am: Edit

Hey Nance! Nice to find you guys! I wouldn't have known this forum even exsisted if Rueben hadn't posted Chris' review of the Jitterbug Jam on the Jive Junction! I'm sure you guys are sorry he did! Hahahaha! If you can't take it- you shouldn't dish it out! 'Opinions'- that is. Well, I bet there will be alot of 'misunderstandings' to come. Yikes!

I miss you! I miss San Diego-no traffic! You always have a big smile for me! Right back attcha!

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 02:29 am: Edit

I responded to 'Valerie' via e-mail by mistake. But I don't feel like re-writing it on here. Just didn't want anyone to think I ignored her! ;)

Signed- the 'back one notch, unfriendly side of the scale, completely narrow-minded, conceited person, judge the entire LA scene by, that I bet if you met in person your view would change, hostile poster', Alicia.

Just kidding! :)

By Justjenn (Justjenn) (spider-tp022.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.204.182) on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 03:17 am: Edit

Hello, this is Justin and Jenn from Orange County.
Being that we dance LA Style, and are in such
close proximity to LA, we sorta get lumped
together. We can definetely say that we do not
agree, or condone (sp.) the non-spontaneous
breakaways, and such, that were mentioned before.

We pride ourselves on the fact, that we do dance
LA style, but we don't fit the mold. There are a
few of us up here, that don't fit the mold you're
describing. In fact, there are quite a few LA
dancers who will say we, (meaning Justin and Jenn,
among others) don't dance the same style as they
do, okay that's fine, they're confused. LA style
is not about routines, and choreography. It's
about clean, tight, improvisational, led (lead?
sp.) dancing. Regardless of style, we, as well as
others, dance on the spot. A trend which we hope
and think will spread. Choreography and routines
are for contests, nothing else. If choreography
is NEEDED on a social dance floor, yo

By Justjenn (Justjenn) (spider-tp022.proxy.aol.com - 152.163.204.182) on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 03:27 am: Edit

Okay, we got cut off... It sounds pretty rad the
way it is though... hahaha... what we meant to say
was...

If choreography is NEEDED on a social dance floor,
you're not a dancer.

By Dan on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 09:38 am: Edit

Alright, it�s been awhile since I posted on this forum or e-mailed anyone else about the San Diego lindy scene. It doesn�t matter about what style one prefers over the other. A lot of people in San Diego may refer to me as Hollywood, Smooth, West Coast, LA whatever. I myself put my style labeled as old school. Why is that, because I�ve generally been dancing with all the old timers of the scene and that is they�re impression of me when I dance with them. They see others like myself in their realm. It�s true that the lindy evolves just like people, but in general if it�s lead and follow, then lead and follow. There are some steps to which some musicality is expressed through body language, and it�s hard for some people to express those body movements in this kind of atmosphere, especially with other strangers and no alcohol. I leave that kind of dancing in other clubs, like Moose�s, E-Street, Studio 54, and the like. The lindy is lead and follow like most other dances, fox trot, waltz, tango, etc��. For the most part, the follow is the just mirroring the lead, �choreographed moves�. If you have a good lead, hence a good follow, thus a bad lead, and then you have a bad follow. The evolved lindy dance known as WC swing is extremely that the follow reacts on the musicality of the song, but listen to the music that WC swingers like to dance to. Most beginners are not comfortable which such body movement. I know for a fact that this is true. I observed a WC swing class with a size of maybe 60-70 people, after the first week of basics, the number drops to 20-30 people, most of which are couples. Due to some body movements that people don�t really want to express when the fluorescent lights are shining.

I�ve been in that beginning stage and to get out of that rut, I had to ask people who have danced a lot better than me. Heck, I�ve even been laughed at on and off the dance floor and commented on, but life goes on. The WC swing club had ladies give me pointers when I asked for it and even when I didn�t. They gave me positive criticism, and that�s good. All I can say for beginner�s getting in on the scene is to ask the �good� dancers to dance. Why should all the work be left to the �advance� dancers to ask? It�s a perfect exercise for the �advance� social dancers to really hone out their skills and see if they have that actual talent of lead and follow, of course there are exceptions to the rule. Another thing for �beginners� to do is actually to approach some of the �advance� dancers and talk to them, learn from them. Hence really socialize on the dance floor. Get to be known.

A little response to Jeremy Otth and Margaret Adams dancing in Jack n Jill. Both are extremely diverse dancers. Jeremy is a great lead, but I�m not too sure about being a �social�* lead. Jeremy likes to lead, and hence would like to see or feel his follow, follow. I think he is more suited to dance with people he feels comfortable with.
Margaret is a great follow and lead, and a she dances well with a lot of different people, but I�ve not seen Margaret dance to a lot of �fast�* music. She does like to �play�* around a lot. Therefore she was not comfortable dancing with Jeremy, plus she doesn�t know him well either. She would have done better if dancing with Mo, or Damon Stone, but then that wouldn�t be really a Jack n Jill would it?

*Social in my broad definition is dancing with entirely new people that you have never met or danced with. Maybe have seen on the floor, but never interacted with.

*Fast again in a broad definition 170+ bpm. Maybe a bit too fast, oh well, make your own judgment.

*Play in the loose definition of the word Savoy. In my definition, really let the waves of the music flow through every nook and cranny of the human body. Thus the speed of wave slows down as it meets with more resistance before leaving the skin. ;-)

In any city that you visit, there will always be the group thing. The clique. It�s true that SD has their cliques, so does LA, SF, Seattle, etc. I myself try to avoid the clique thing, but I often see myself flowing into one or the other. That�s why I leave myself free from that turmoil by traveling.

Every city also has their friendly dancers and not-sop friendly dancers. I�ve been turned down in SD, in general by some dancers who don�t like my �style�, whatever that is in their definition.

Not too many beginning dancers look to this forum for great advice, but maybe just for the shear entertainment to read what the local regular dancers have to say to each other. Therefore, to sell the dance to newbies, teach the dance to which one can lead and follow. No more nonsense of Savoy or Hollywood.

Cheers
Dan

By HopMichael on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 01:43 pm: Edit

One day they will invent a machine that edits our posts and checks to see how they come off in tone when they are read by someone else.

Until then, we will have to actually re-read our posts before hitting the "Post Message" button. =)

By Lisa Conway on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 06:38 pm: Edit

As someone who is always getting heat for being a snob, I have to add my two cents. LA is a hard scene to break into, but not impossible. I have some good friends up there and I spend a lot of time dancing up there...but, I think (as someone has already stated) that every city has a cliques to break in to. Think of what a new dancer must feel like when they go out in San Diego...intimidated. That's just what happens when you're around a lot of people you don't know.

I also agree that a lot of LA style people choreograph moves...with their partners. If I dance with someone up there, they don't try to bust out some choreography that I don't know. They lead me...they improvise...they have fun.

There's this myth out there that LA-Stylers don't have any spontenaiety and creativity and that we're rigid and upright/uptight (no, I'm not pointing fingers). It's just not true. It just looks different than what most people down here are used to seeing. To each their own...just have fun and dance already.

Hi Jenn, Justin and Alicia!

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 02:14 am: Edit

Hi LISA. Long time-no see.

I don't think you're a snob...... ;)

By Peter (Peter) (1cust254.tnt36.lax3.da.uu.net - 63.36.0.254) on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 06:06 am: Edit

correct me if I'm wrong Chris,but the "LA" dancers you are refering to are what we call the Paladino dancers or Valley dancers. Just like San Diego (north county etc..) they are a different faction or small "click" that HARDLEY represents the majority or "style" of all Los Angeles.
It wasn't that long ago I remember NO lindy Hoppers in San diego, slowly they appeared and they were all doing Lindy Hop that appeared close to a 30's style(call it what you will). The first LA dancer to make an impact on SD as far as teaching goes was Johnny and his students. in the meantime The City dancers downthere were keeping the dance more "physical" , at that time the north county dancers where doing routines and the downtown dancers were relying on Lead and follow.
I don't think people back then "judged" San Diego on the north county dancing or vise versa,Ofcourse since then everything has changed.Now Little ol San Diego has big City politics(Like LA and nothing to be proud of) and what seems from the outside as a "split" scene because of the "style" of dancing. sO WHEN someone enters a Jack n Jill, don't complain afterwards because you danced with somebody who doesn't do "your" style, I'm not saying this is the reason But It should be brought to attention. my Personal opinion is that Jeremy's dancing is "geared" towards contest dancing which he is very good at with a regular partner and he isn't a good "all around style" lead,HOWEVER after looking at all the leads in That contest he was a great draw far any AVERAGE dancer,and a better Draw for a LA style dancer.
Regardless, It's a freaking Jack n Jill you win some you lose more. It's supposed to be for fun!

By Melbamoose on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 08:50 am: Edit

Now that's my kinda poster! 6:06am...

By Valerie Yau on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 09:40 am: Edit

Alicia, i never received your email - maybe it just got erased? :/

Justin/Jenn, Lisa, and Peter...thanks much for your input...it was good to hear your points of view.

I realize that I was over-generalizing my statements... I was mostly referring to LA dancing in jams as far as choreography goes (not social dancing) ... and if I think about it, it is mostly the 'valley' dancers (if i'm understanding right) that I notice because many of them go into the jams at the events that I attend. But I still believe that dance partner-choreographed break-aways and footwork sequences are MORE COMMON in these LA jam circles than they are in SD circles...it just doesn't really happen in SD.

And I'm not saying that LA dancers are not spontaneous and creative...of course they are - that's what lindy is all about. But I do believe that the creativeness of LA dancers is expressed differently, in general, to that of SD, SF, Chicago, etc. dancers. What I notice in all aspects of LA dancing, is that...how can I explain this?...is that the creativity and styling in much of LA veers towards a certain theme, a certain look. after all, that's what makes it LA style. I don't mean that all LA dancers look the same either. But if I have to generalize LA dancing, the 'look' can be one of eloquence (sp?), floating across water smoothness, sometimes sillyness,...the word 'classic' also comes to mind also. When I think of SD/SF/Seattle/NY, other words come to mind: 'groove'...sometimes 'jazzy', 'sporty', 'sultry'...'sillyness', but a different kind.

When Chris and I refer to 'spontaneity', we're referring to the above concept. I think we are using the wrong words..let me restate: LA dancers have a different type of spontaneity than SD dancers as far as styling concepts go. All lindy is lead and follow and spontaneous on the social dance floor. But the point we were trying to get across is that you wouldn't find an LA dancer spontaneously rolling on the floor during a song or doing body rolls w/ their partner... you all know what I mean?

Peter, I haven't been in the scene as long as you obviously, but I was part of the SD scene when it first started to attrack a mainstream crowd... and I'll have to disagree w/ you about the north county dancers. yes, they did routines - but only for performances... on the social dance floor they lead & follow just like everyone else. in fact, they were some of the best hoppers in s.d...but i do understand what you mean that you shouldn't judge a crowd just by looking at the 'louder' minority.

And I also agree that the best jack and jill competitors and dancers in general are those that can adapt to any style of dancing. after all, you must be a great dancer if you can lead or follow one person just as well as the next... and one of the best if you can switch and adapt to anyone.

By Chris on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 09:41 am: Edit

Um . . . wow, I never knew that a post that was was not intended to put anyone down or the belittle any particular style of Lindy would cause so much disturbance. For the record: I have no problem with any style of Lindy. As I said before "the Dancers at Jitterbug Jamboree ROCKED!"

Quote:
I could see some of the dancers up there taking offense to my comment about "spontaneous creativity," it was never intended to be an insult. San Fransisco prides itself on groovy bluesy savoy musicality, LA might not. I'm not saying that one is any better than the other. Here in San Diego, the majority of the dancers connect more with the style of the San Frans than the LA dancers.

I can't stress enough that I love the intensity that the LA dancers have!!

I noticed that I lumped all the LA dancers together, I don't know what groups are from where - I'm not from LA. I apologize for associating all the LA dancers into one big basket.

As for Jeremy: I sincerely apologize for mixing his name up. That was my bad, and as funny as it may sound I was oblivious to the porno star name!

Though, it may have sounded like I was whining I wasn't. As any good friend would do, you'd hope the draw would team them up with someone of compatable style. I stated that it was the "luck of the draw," and that is exactly what it was. I have never seen Jeremy before until that event, and that night I heard he was an excellent dancer. I'm sure he is.

I think that people sometimes over read or over analyze posts. It's even harder to understand a post made by someone you don't even know. It gives you no reference point. People, it seems, are becoming too reactive and not rational about things. It's not just here on the forum but you see it everyday out on the streets and in the news. People sometimes don't think things all they way through, and I am just as guilty at times. In the end, I never meant for my post to be insultive, condescending, or sarcastic.

I still think that the Dancers at the Jitterbug Jamboree were so tight!! Where ever they were from.

By Chris on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 09:48 am: Edit

Oh, I forgot to add that the choreographed areas were only in the jams, not on the social dance floor. I was not clear about that, my bad.

And my statement about "breaks,"

Quote:
San Diego just didn't get the breaks at this contestJ.

That's a figure of speech. Notice the smiley face at the end.

I hope this settles somethings, maybe not. Most likely it will start something else. I think I'm cursed or something?
J

By Melbamoose on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 10:58 am: Edit

Hey Chris....I just wanted to say, that I thought you had been unfairly attacked on the forum recently, and I'm happy to see that (as usual) you came through eloquently showing your rational and diplomatic side. I'll see you dancing this weekend, hopefully.
~Krista

By Fad23 (Fad23) ( - 205.184.71.107) on Friday, March 03, 2000 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Hey Alicia,

It would be really cool if Ron Jeremy were really in the Invitational! What style would he dance?

By Peter (Peter) (1cust191.tnt5.lax1.da.uu.net - 63.24.118.191) on Saturday, March 04, 2000 - 01:52 am: Edit

Valerie, I think The "Jams" by definition can only be described in styles by the tempo's played.
Here in LA Jams are normally Higher tempo's than anywhere else, and thus dancers tend to do "tricks" such as air steps,slip outs etc.Unless you go to Memories where there is a large cross over of floor dancing mixed in.
All the Cities you mentioned, Jam at very slow tempo's with the exception of NY,(where I have been in slow and fast jams).
If a Jam started in LA that was slow, dancers couldn't do any of the Classic Savoy moves and thus be retired to Jazz dancing. Memories, is the only place I know of up here that has Jazz Jams like S.F. etc....
Although I ABSOLUTLY LOVE SLOW JAZZ DANCING, I really don't see some type of a need for it in a Jam!!! After all it is nothing different then how I dance socially so I don't need the space or people watching.
However when the tempo's soar, more space is needed and IF people choose to stand back then it's the one safe time in the night to do Air Steps, slip-outs etc...Sure some dancers have little routines to try out, others like my self just wing it, either way it can be fun not to mention a Good plug for the original SAVOY style!
Yeah Man!

By Valerie Yau on Saturday, March 04, 2000 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Actually Peter...we don't really have many jams anymore :( but when they were more frequent in SD, they were almost always fast tempo... unfortunately most of the time we were jamming to 'sing, sing, sing' though...i think everyone got tired of it. we do play slower songs for birthday circles and such, but i don't consider those 'jams'.

I have a question...what do you consider to be Original or Classic Savoy? I know nowadays I'm dancing 'modern Savoy' style because it's been transformed a lot since then....

-valerie-

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Saturday, March 04, 2000 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Just one 'lil 'ol comment to: "you wouldn't find a LA dancer spontaneously rolling on the floor during a song".

Um, ye-ah...Did you not see Jeremy doing push-ups during the pre-lim Jack-N-Jill with Joan? Granted, he wasn't 'rolling around', but that's besides the point.

I, myself, and a few other dancers I know, have definitely executed 'moves' that required floor contact. I believe one move involved a 'swimming' motion, among various other things.

That would be a good topic for discussion:

"Moves that require you to 'hit the deck' (arials not included)". Hahahaha!

As far as the e-mail is concerned, I probably screwd-up. Nothing new when the computor is involved. I don't even remember what I said, but I'm sure it was RAD! Hee hee.

I'm over it. I've made my points-along with the help of Justin, Jenn, and Peter (and Lisa Conway!) Thanks guys! Also, Chris seems harmless. Just wanted to add that in there! ;)

Now, as far as 'body rolls'....um-no.
We are in TOTAL agreement here.

By Alicia Milo aka Zazoo Zazoo on Saturday, March 04, 2000 - 08:45 pm: Edit

To FAD23:

The 'mess-around'?

Sorry, that's as creative as I could get-being I AM from LA and all.

Oops, did I say that out loud?

Wait, that's not really a 'style' is it?

Does anyone else wanna jump in here?
Maybe not...

By Peter (Peter) (1cust240.tnt5.lax1.da.uu.net - 63.24.118.240) on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 02:16 am: Edit

Valerie, OK. I don't consider B day dances Jams either.

Classic Savoy? oh , I just threw that term out. It's Opposite of Modern Savoy. Lots more tension between couples, comfortable at faster tempo's etc...You know.

Yea, it sucks that we have to use these terms. What sucks more is the term "savoy" to describe a dance that barely resembles anything that was ever done at the Savoy.

I really respect the instructors that have started using the term "modern savoy", being that they understand it is a modern spin off.

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