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SwingOrama Forum: Music: General: Song Structure

By HopMichael on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 05:26 pm: Edit

I found this great post on Yehoodi. I think it will be helpful for those beginners/intermediates trying to anticipate breaks and changes in the music.

====

There are really two different levels at which this discussion applies. The first is
at the "verse" level (i.e. one 8-bar verse or chorus in the average jazz standard
where a bar is 4 beats in 4/4 time). A common structure for a verse is aaba. In
other words, speaking in dance terms, the first, second, and fourth 8-counts of a
verse will be musically very similar, while the third will be something different,
usually designed to lead back into a musical resolution by the fourth phrase.

Then, at a higher level, as previously mentioned, many jazz standards have a
verse-verse-chorus-verse structure, which is also an aaba. For example, My
Funny Valentine.

There are even some songs in which both the verse and chorus have an aaba
structure, and the song is verse-verse-chorus-verse, giving you a really confusing
aaba MADE UP of aaba's.

There are also a lot of standards where the verse is just a tag on the front, often
sung at a slower tempo, followed by lots of choruses, possibly interrupted by
bridges. So you might have abbbbbbbb, or abbcbbcbb. A lot of times the verse
is omitted completely--many people don't even realize that many of the jazz
standards they know and love even *have* verses. For example, Cole Porter's
"Anything Goes" is often performed without the verse.

As for Genesis ABACAB, the abacab form is the stereotypical pop song form:
verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse-chorus.

Then there is the 12-bar blues. Also previously mentioned, in 12-bar blues the
verses generally have an aab form, but the song itself may often take an aaba
form. In this case, the b section or chorus is often not musically different from the
verse, but may have a lot of breaks or other embellishments (which is more
accurately an aaa'a form). If you pay attention to blues songs, you can figure out
the (often very simple) structure and start to anticipate when the breaks are
coming again.

Not all blues are 12-bar blues, though. Many blues ballads are 8-bar or 16-bar
forms, with an aabb or aaab verse structure.

This is probably more information than anyone wanted to know. And I'll warn you
now, don't get me started on ii-V-I chord progressions or you'll regret it. ;-)

--The Merch (future music major)
(aka Jonathan from Austin)

By John P. Cooper on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 03:41 am: Edit

Too bad his information is wrong from the start.

The great majority of pop songs from the period of the 20s - 40s (and before and after, too) are written in what is called the AABA format.

This simply means that the "A" theme is heard 3 times and the "B" theme is heard once (within the written context of the song). Each theme usually consists of eight bars. This AABA structure is called the 'chorus', *NOT* the 'verse'!

The "B" theme is commonly called the 'release' or the 'bridge', for obvious reasons. If you are talking with songwriters and use these terms, they will know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

The 'verse' is entirely seperate and, as written by the song writers, preceeds the 'chorus'. Most verses are short, usually 8 or 16 bars, and the thematic content is different from that contained in the 'chorus', BUT, in the AABA song format, the verse is not assigned any of the "A" or "B" designations.

Lyrically, the words of the verse leads into the 'story' that the lyric (or words) of the chorus tell about, like a prologue to a story.

Some songs do not have a verse written and 9 times out of 10, even when there IS a written verse, it is not performed by the band or vocalist! Why? I don't know. It's like skipping the salad and getting to the main course.

Forget about the use of the phrase 'jazz standard' when referring to popular song writing of the period. No composer wrote in the 'jazz standard' category. Song writers wrote pop songs that may or may not have become standards, jazz or otherwise.

When listening to a recorded version of a song from the swing years, do not confuse the introduction with the verse OR the chorus. The introduction usually uses part of the main theme from the chorus, along with a bit of variation.

Don't worry about the structure of the verse. No one except total pop song die hards like Michael Feinstein or Bobby Short would ever get deeply into it as far as conversation or research.

Sadly, as the years have gone by, the verse has become more and more dispensible in performance.

OK. Three common AABA tunes are "Blueberry Hill", "At Last" and "Someone To Watch Over Me". If you count the beats in each measure of the song, four beats to the bar, you'll come out with a 32 bar song. Easy as that. The songs probably all have a verse, but I don't know what they are.

On the other hand, a semi-common ABA tune is "Just a Little Bit South of North Carolina" which we hear a lot by Gene Krupa's band with Anita O'Day singing. The "A" theme of 8 bars begins the chorus, the "B" theme of 8 bars is in the middle (and is the 'release' from the "A" part and/or the 'bridge' between the two "A" parts) and then the "A" theme is heard for 8 more bars. And that's the song.

It's all really very simple.

Then there are exceptionally long songs employing several themes. A great example which most of us know is "Begin the Beguine" the Cole Porter song done by Artie Shaw. Nearly endless and the "A" theme is 12 bars long and not eight. And the song goes on from there.....

Ok...that's enough.

OH. PS : I don't see how any of this will help you anticipate breaks in a song, which can occur anywhere, but if you are thinking about dancing to a recorded performance, most swing recordings will have an introduction, then will usually skip the verse and go into the chorus for 32 bars or so, perhaps have some solo work by the boys in the band, and then return with a 'reprise' of the "A" theme and then a finale with a mellow or bold flourish, depending on if it is a ballad or a hot tune.

By HopMichael on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 09:50 am: Edit

John,

Many thanks for the great contribution! Actually, many things of what you said were also mentioned in the same thread on Yehoodi. I just excerpted a particularly interesting post. Still, your expansion on the topic illustrates the ideas of song structure even further.

HopM

By John P. Cooper on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 10:41 am: Edit

dear hopM:

you are welcome.

so he was corrected on the yehoodi forum, as well?

i realize he seemed to be a student, but there were just toooooo many mistakes on there to be re-printed as fact.

i only had 2 years of music theory in high school, but none of this was covered anyway.

all this quality information was presented to me over the years merely by reading a few books and the backs of hundreds of record covers and just simply listening.

more than likely, ALL this information is succinctly summed up in one book somewhere (perhaps by Michael Feinstein and/or Bobby Short!), but it really is Songwriting 101.

By HopMichael on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 01:22 am: Edit

Hmmm...on more careful reading of Jonathan's and John's posts, I don't think you two are that far off from each other. Just expressing it with different terms.

John Cooper wrote:

====
The great majority of pop songs from the period of the 20s - 40s (and before and after, too) are written in what is called the AABA format.

This simply means that the "A" theme is heard 3 times and the "B" theme is heard once (within the written context of the song). Each theme usually consists of eight bars. This AABA structure is called the 'chorus', *NOT* the 'verse'!

====
[here "A" theme = 8 bars]

Jonathan from Austin wrote:
====
The first is at the "verse" level (i.e. one 8-bar verse or chorus in the average jazz standard here a bar is 4 beats in 4/4 time). A common structure for a verse is aaba. In other words, speaking in dance terms, the first, second, and fourth 8-counts of a verse will be musically very similar, while the third will be something different, usually designed to lead back into a musical resolution by the fourth phrase.

Then, at a higher level, as previously mentioned, many jazz standards have a verse-verse-chorus-verse structure, which is also an aaba. For example, My Funny Valentine.

====
[Here "verse" = 8 bars]

The terminology is different but I think the ideas are basically the same. That is, John's "AABA" = Jonathan's "verse-verse-chorus-verse"

John calls "AABA" a "chorus" (not the same in Jonathan's lexicon). I'm not too sure what Jonathan calls his "verse-verse-chorus-verse."

Anyway, I find it appropriate that John and Jonathan have both similar names and song structure ideas...=)

By John P. Cooper on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 04:01 am: Edit

Certain things have certain names in certain situations.

Jonathan is grossly misusing the terms verse and chorus.

As I said, this is basic Songwriting 101 text book stuff.

Jonathan is adding confusion and misinformation on a very basic level.

By Ron on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:26 am: Edit

Michael, John will never acknowledge anything well-said, partially correct, or an interesting point in anyone else's posts. If it isn't 100% according to John, its not right.

By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:42 am: Edit

What I find amusing is that Michael thinks that a new dancer would find it easier to think about song structure while dancing to predict possible breaks rather then just simply listening to the music.

By Andy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:50 am: Edit

I like ABBA

By Ron on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:53 am: Edit

That's scary, Andy. But would you Lindy to ABBA?

By Andy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:57 am: Edit

I'd do lot's of things to ABBA... ~;^)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Pot to Kettle (RON), your black!

By Ron on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:41 pm: Edit

huh? you lost me.

By Melbamoose on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Ron, I think the anonymous poster is referring to you and your obsession of lindy hopping to anything with a beat...

By Ron on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 09:56 am: Edit

OH, OK. But I wouldn't do anything to ABBA. A guy's gotta have some standards...

By Ian Campbell on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 10:44 am: Edit

For once I agree with Hitman, I like Abba too

By Andy on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 03:07 pm: Edit

That wouldn't have anything to do with you being a "dancing queen" , now would it!? ~8^)

By Melbamoose on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Oh Ian! I miss you.

By Melbamoose on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 03:36 pm: Edit

And about those standards of yours Ron...
hee hee hee

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