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I've had this idea for a long time and I thought I'd throw it out for comment. As a DJ, its pretty hard to figure out what songs people like. The really bad ones clear the floor, the really good ones people run over to the DJ booth to ask you about, or they clap for. Certain popular ones get requested a lot. I make a lot of CDs for people and sometimes I get feedback on them, but not usually specifically. (By the way, folks, don't leave those CDs in the heat of your car, the sticker label will come off). I can sometimes tell if people like songs by how fast the floor fills, how many people are still on the sides, or their energy or expressions during the song. I also get input from other swing DJs on good songs/artists. But outside of that, its pretty hard to tell. The people who generally liked the music might compliment you at the end of the evening, the people who generally didn't like the music will either stay away, or complain the next day on the forum. But its hard to tell which songs they liked or disliked. People just get a general sense of satisfaction or disatisfaction. I do, too, when I dance to other DJs. Its hard to get specific. Usually, I start from a base of songs that I've prescreened to be good to dance to, (that are obviously biased to be in my areas of preference) and then I try them out, see how they go over (if I can tell at all, also biased by me), and then play the better of those more often, while still including ones that I didn't think were so great to provide variety, and because I'm often wrong. So here's the idea: Have a swing music evaluation night. I bring some CDs, or make a CD or two of songs that I want input on, and I make a little form with the list of songs and space for ratings (1 to 5) and comments. At someone's house, like Michaels (what do you think, Michael?), I play a song, or part of a song, people dance or listen to it, and at the end of every song, people spend 15 seconds rating and commenting on that song, then I play the next one. Oh, and at the end of the night, I could give away Its a lot more work for me to do this, which is why I've hesitated to suggest it. And it has the obvious major problem of how to get a representative group. The advanced and more hard-core dancers would probably be over-represented. So the results would probably be skewed against what beginners like. And if there were a lot of groovy lovers in the group, the results would be similarly biased. And people won't feel the same about a song in Michael's living room as they would at the end of a night of dancing at the Firehouse. And it won't solve diversity arguments. There is no magic mix that satisfies everyone. People want at least 2/3rds of the night to be their preferred music. If its only 1/3, they won't really notice it, and they'll have a unsatisfying night. 2/3 + 2/3 + 2/3 = impossible. But at least I could get some idea if people like the Joe Williams song I've dug up, or a new tune from Johnny Boyd. Or it might help to find the groovy tunes that the big-band lovers hated the least, and vice-versa. Or I could see if people like any of the lounge songs I generally stay away from. I could just take the results as more input along with the other inputs. I'd have to find a night, a place, and people willing to do this, in exchange for: o having some influence over what they hear in our swing venues o possibly winning a free CD o having wine and food with some cool people after the evaluation is over Any comments? |
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Lindy Focus Groups: I love it!! =) |
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I'd certainly be game for an evening like that! We need a POSITIVE forum for music where we can say what we like and dislike without the buggering online flaming. |
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how about doing a Nielsen rating sort of a thing at a club a couple of nites. For folks who are coming in, ask them if they'd like to be a Nielsen dancer.. they could list how long they've been dancing, what their predisposed style preference is, and rank the songs (like you suggested). After you could compile stats.. like: beg & adv dancers like these songs, LA and Sav folks have these songs in common, etc, etc. I'd sign up for sure! We could do it at Firehouse, Clayton's, maybe Rocket. Have Sweeps week! |
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scan-tronOrama! I'd sign up. It's always hard for me to remember which songs I got excited about--and more impossible to tell the DJ afterwards, since I am no swing music buff. Usually I'm like, 'oh, that piano trio one was great' or 'wow, I liked that fast one'. Not terribly helpful. But if we had forms, and reminders through a couple of nights, it might even help to educate me (and other people who don't know their swing/jazz music) about the artists/eras that appeal to them. great idea, Ron. |
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During a normal night of dancing, I'm not sure that people will want to take out a piece of paper after every song and rate a song. They come to dance and socialize. I can just picture people looking for their pens and paper while people stand around waiting to ask them to dance. That's why I suggest a special night, where the pauses between songs are long enough, and everyone's doing it. Also, I could play only 30 seconds of a song, maybe, and cover more songs. I remember when I was a kid I was a rater of radio songs, they called me every couple of weeks. They played 10 seconds of a bunch of songs, after each song, I said something like, "don't know", "like", "dislike", "sick of"... |
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Here's an idea that worked for me: At some parties I've DJ'd, I wanted to get feedback. So I made some simple little forms with questions like "How would you rate tonight's music" with "excellent/good/fair/poor/terrible" next to it. I also asked what kind of music they like to listen and dance to, and what they would like to have heard more of and a space for comments. Then I asked everyone to fill it out before they left and put it in a box. I got a good response and it worked well. If you did something like this at Firehouse or Claytons or whatever, it would let you get an idea of how the dancers in general felt about you that night, and would give them an opportunity to give you feedback without being put on the spot. And if you make it simple, then they can just do it as they walk out the door. Granted, you won't get feedback on specific songs necessarily. But with a little imagination, I think you could get it to work quite well. (It might also be good to get the ideas of the dancing public in general, not just those who are willing to go to someone's house and listen to songs) Hope this helps. -JB |
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JB - that's a good idea, though, i think we have a good sense how folks feel about Ron's DJ'in on a macro level. They either like him or detest him. Ron - i think many folks would be willing to do the scantron for an evening. On the way in, just ask folks if they want to be a nielsen rater, give them a form, after each song, tell the audience what song, artist just played, and what nielson number to fill in. Having a non-club nite would only draw a few close friends. You'll get a much more diverse sample if you do it at a club, especially a few clubs where the attendance usually comes from slightly diff populations. |
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But that interferes with a normal night out dancing, I can't be doing that. People don't want to be listening to announcements and filling out forms, they want to be dancing. But I definitely want to avoid just having a few close friends at a special night, we'll invite a diverse of a group as possible. Yeah, its specific feedback I'm looking for. I've heard enough general feedback of all kinds. I'm an engineer, I need data, man. |
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Brace yourself for shere genious here: Instead of scantrons, we'll make remote control devices for every dancer, like in game shows, except about the size of a watch. They will have 5 small buttons that the people can push at the end of the song to rate it. It will be linked remotely to a computer which will atomatically tally the results! In order to cover the astronomically exorbitant cost of such a project, we can patent it and rent out the service to DJs all around the country! Who's in with me? (p.s. You provide the capital) |
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i'm in. |
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Yeah, even better: we'll implant the device in people's heads that automatically registers "approval", and use Bluetooth protocol to transmit the rating to the DJ booth. And then, (oh I'm warming up to this idea, now), if they come up to the DJ booth to make a lame request, like, "Can you play the Jitterbug Stroll?", I'll use the secret feedback path to zap them. And for Krista, I'll just zap her periodically for no reason just because she's Krista. =) |
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"THE WRATH OF RHAN" |
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Wasn't this the basis of the Riddler's device in Batman Forever? |
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Anyway, I'm proceeding with the original idea. A limited number of people, selected with diversity in mind, will soon receive an special-invitation to the swing evaluation night. Michael has graciously volunteered use of his home and will help invite people. The night will be invitation only. It'll be fun! All types and tempos of songs will be tested. This is a tough question, but what do people think is a good representative group? (of San Diego Lindyhoppers)? What percentage beginners vs. advanced? Regulars vs. occasionals? Savoy vs. Hollywood/DC/smooth/LA stylers? young vs. old? |
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"Old" is good...(8^D) Ron, how come you're not up at Memories fighting for a little piece of that dancefloor? |
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all that stuff ron; what has been roundly determined this weekend is that no matter HOW MUCH GOOD SHIT a d.j. or number of d.j.'s plays, there will ALWAYS be some arrogant shit-head out of towner avaliable to give his worthless opinion of how much Bobby fucking Darin swings and how the floor stays packed when that gawdaweful shit is played. you know what you as a dj have every right in the world to say to those cock suckers? "FUCKOFF!" it's not always the most polite thing to do, nor is it usually in good taste to do so, but it is effective in getting them to go away and ... yeah. |
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bottom line: you cant please everybody. but fuckit, who wants to? |
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"... I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (Paul the apostle, 1 Corinthians 9:22a) Can't please everybody, but I think it's cool to be as accommodating as possible. I don't want to hear any "Bobby Darin" either, (unless it's right after Metallica). Glad you had fun, Jake. How was the Saturday night thing, (or was it Friday), from 7pm to 7am at Memories? How many stayed until the end? Was the dance floor ever too crowded? |
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...oh, and I think Ron's idea would help "edumacate" people like me that know diddly squat about swing music, musicians, dates of recordings, etc. |
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Jeff, Jake spews forth more crap, and yet you still treat him polite and ask him polite questions? you are one nice weird dude. |
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Ron, you spew forth more crap, and yet Jeff still treats you polite and asks you polite questions? you are one fucked up dude. I didn't see you at any of the exchange events Ron, what's up with that? Biggest swing party to date right next door and you missed out? That's just crazy. |
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Just lazy.. |
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I was there when that guy came up to you Jake...he was definitely smoking some gnarly shit. Do you know where he was from? |
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I think Sherri knew where he was from. I have to say I loved the music. The non-swing stuff was hilarious too, best westie impression, soul train lines, Thriller, etc. and really changed the pace for a while, making it a breeze to get through to 7am. Thank you all. Rueben even said "hi" to me ;) Nat |
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But I didn't get to dance with you. ...or do those other things we had planned. ;) |
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I didn't know that you danced with renegade savoyers. Maybe we could get together and do some westcoast. Only you have to wear the gold lame boxers this time, he, he, he. |
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OK, I just realized that without the accent, it looks like I might have been dis'ing DJ's undies. I meant larm-ay (phonetically speaking). |
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he was from florida last i heard. he had the nerve to say hello at alicias party. the floor was packed....the whole time. yeah, even when there was no music, there were still some people dancing. so what does that tell you, ron, you fucknugget. it tells me that it doesnt always matter what is played or if everyone likes it. there will always be at least one hardass willing to dance to it. so i guess that's a good enough answer for me as to why YOU dj and why people dance to your gawdaweful shit. |
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The contest was hysterical!! The most entertaining part of the evening... Was I the only one shouting "NO!!!" when Reuben started getting naked?? |
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Cause we were hoarse from shouting it earlier when he took his shirt off. |
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You weren't saying "No" the last time I started getting naked. HA HA HA HA! After looking at the pictures I realized just how bad I hit my back on the wood in DJ booth. I must have been to drunk to realize it at first. And yes Nat, I dance with everyone! |
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What did you say about hurting yourself on DJs wood? :o |
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He broke my behymon. |
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you're going to get us into trouble again... |
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I'm trying to get more beginners, or at least, non-regulars to come to this swing music evaluation/focus group event. To provide a good mix and balance of people. I asked a bunch of people last night whose faces I didn't recognize, but they mostly couldn't make it. Mid-terms and what not. So I'll ask here. If there is anyone who is reading this who has been swing dancing less than 6 months who might be interesting in attending a swing music evaluation, send me an email, at rjbloom@hotmail.com But I have to say, if you have been dancing less than 6 months and you are reading this forum.... are you nuts? stop! stop reading while you still can! |
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It's a trap, this is only a trap. This has been a test of the american jazz music preservation federation. Please take 3-steps back from your keyboard and don't proceed with the previous plea. ![]() |
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So sad. This has been a failed test of the tolerance among dancers federation. |
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You want the right mix of good music for dancers of all kinds? Saturday night, February 3rd, 2001, Memories, Anaheim was your perfect example. Oh wait, Ron wasn't there. HA HA HA |
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Don't pat yourself on the back too much, Reuben, some people have told me they weren't crazy about the music mix that night, so I don't think you've found the elusive swing mix magic formula yet. |
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When 90%+ of the people are happy and having a good time I couldn't give a shit what the rest of them think. 'em. Funny though, that I haven't heard a word from anyone who, as you say, "weren't crazy" about the mix... just you, who wasn't even there. That and it wasn't even my mix, it was a mix of around 8 different DJs. |
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Ron's worse nightmare... the inside of Memories DJ booth: ![]() |
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and also, dude, considering we played just about every style of music known to man, at one point or another, throughout the evening (shit, we even played BAD music to satisfy the swing dorks!), anyone who complained or walked away shaking their heads were either: *deaf *one of those who left too early *deaf *dumb or *deaf and dumb for example, Justin and my set consisted of Kenny Rogers (how's that for a crowd pleaser?), Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke, Tom Waits, more Sam Cooke, The Pogues, Nina Simone, Robert Johnson, Sydney Bechet, and even 1930's Calypso Carnival Music (which incidently made many girls and boys very happy), etc. etc. etc. We recieved nothing but smiles, "good jobs"'s, "oooo, what's this, I liiiiike it!"'s, and a packed dance floor. But there was one dick from florida who insisted that Bobby Darin was the king of swing and frowned upon us for not playing enough of him, calling everything else we played "bad music". Is this the dick dork you might be refering to ronnie? fucking magoo. mmmmmyeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss, yea-yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaas ~Floyd The Barber |
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word to that reub. |
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I just noted that what I said earlier about the music on Saturday night at the LA exchange wasn't really fair. Many more people told me they liked it that night than didn't like it. I don't mean to rain on your parade. |
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The swing music evaluation was held Sunday night at Michael's place, with 13 people participating. It was pretty interesting! I tried not to invite the people I knew the best, and both of us tried to invite a diverse group, but we still ended up lacking beginners and smooth-stylers. I played songs, or parts of songs, depending on the set, and then people rated them. I played some new songs to test them out, and some standards. All tempos, all types of swing, but roughly a typical set I would play. People danced some. After 40 songs, people talked about their favorites, and so forth. I just finished analyzing the results (in Excel). The most surprising thing was the lack of consensus on almost everything, including favorite songs, types of songs, or tempos. What some people loved, others hated. Like the Andrews Sisters "Bounce Me..", scored midway, but had a lot of 5's-- some people just love it! Even the lowest rated songs had some fans. I had thought people might be sick of some of the standards like "Fever", "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off" and "Ain't Nobody Here But Us Chickens", but no, they still loved em. A couple new jazzy songs did well. The Sinatra tanked (good!) Anyway, some of the most interesting things were brought up in the discussion afterwards. I think what I found most interesting was people talking about how much they dislike getting 4 or 5 bad songs in a row. Of course, people disagreed on which ones. I think the main lesson I took away is to keep mixing things up. And I'll probably play the lower rated songs, and ones like them, more rarely. Thanks to those that participated! |
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i calculate that's the end of this town... |
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Awww Ron, I was going to send some of my handsome and talented new students over that have been trained under "Dennis" music to give some input as an appoligic gesture for my snide(which was meant to be playful) remark of last week. Maybe you should make this a bi-monthly event; I didn't realize you were in a hurry. Really I am nice....and for the record, I have had some fun speedie dances with Ron. ![]() |
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NANCY!!!! Your pictures are scaring me...STOP IT!!! |
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That is a pretty damn scary picture, Nancy. |
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i looked at it for a long long time...just stared. it started to talk to me. i kept thinking "what do you want??? HUH?! What are you LOOKING AT?!!!". |
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She actually dances hip-hop by remote conrol spins on her head and all. So funny, a lady called the other day wanting to join Dennis's and my "Hip-Hop" class with her daughter. |
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1282,41645,00.html,This article might provide a solution to the musical taste issue... |
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try this |
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Ok I give up. The article talked about using software to find music that you didn't know you liked. For example a Mettalica fan may not know that s/he would like Mozart. The software figures that out and makes recomendations. |
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