     By Shawn Hanna on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 10:16 am: Edit |
Hey all, Freddie expressed an interest in broadening the appeal of his band. I know there are those who aren't big fans of his current offerings. Ron? Lisa? Dennis? Glenn? Who cares to suggest additions to his repertoire? |
| By Chris Bowling on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 10:57 am: Edit |
I talked to Carlos Washington - trumpeter - and he has been playing around in soul/groove/funk jazz lately. This is obvious in Freddy's band from what I heard last Friday night at The Rocket. Freddy has got such great musicians in his group, almost too great. He let's his band members do what they want with little or no boundaries. This is perfect for jazz, no boundaries. When you try to play "danceable" music to the mass swing crowd (mass - meaning beginners to advanced) it's hard for the beginners to dance to real heady jazz. It's even harder for the less experienced dancers to dance to songs that change rhythm and styles often. I love what Freddy's band is doing, but I think it is getting too "heady" (intellectual) for the masses. His band is slowly becoming a listening band rather than a dance band. It's great to experiment and to dive into different styles and mix them all together. Only so many people - minority - can dance or even attempt to dance to "heady" music. I think this is why many people don't like Freddy's band, it's just not "standard" enough. This may sound like Freddy should simplify and standardize his music. Unfortunately, I think this needs to happen for him to get the "masses" to like his music and follow him. I like what he's doing, but Shana and I alone can't support him and his band. |
| By Ron on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 11:18 am: Edit |
I thought his band got more danceable from the time I first saw them in March to recently. But still, he's jazzy, and that's just not going to appeal to everyone. His lounge-swing voice doesn't help, either. I don't know what to suggest that doesn't change the whole character of his band. A band has to play to its strengths, and play what its comfortable playing. |
| By Andy on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 11:40 am: Edit |
Well, Chris.. I agree and disagree. I think some more standard tunes could help attract the less experienced and the crowd that likes only standard tunes. But, I think one thing that really makes Freddy A's band fun to see is that experimental side. They sound different every time you see them, and there are lots of fun things in the music to play off of. I think the "heady" intellectual music is good for our scene. It's like back in the days, as the music developed.. Basie, Ellington and others have talked about how the population at large became more literate and discrimating as they heard more of the intellectual, sophisticated music. Maybe more of the faster music from the 30's, to attract the HW/LA style crowd (maybe some instrumental only versions ~8^) |
| By Chris Bowling on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 11:52 am: Edit |
Thanks for clarifying Andy. I didn't mean Freddy should standardize all his music, just some to attract beginners and people who don't like dancing to all jazzy music. Yes, I agree to the faster, Boogie Woogie piano, cranking tunes to attract other lindy style dancers. They could be like the "Chick Webb" band that were the house band at the Savoy. Playing around with new techniques and sounds and playing off the dancers!! |
| By Swiveler on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 12:09 pm: Edit |
Okay, here's my problem with Freddie A: 1. Voice, much like Warren's of BTO it doesn't swing or have soul. The vocal stylings are too modern. 2. Too Jazzy. Yes, I CAN dance to it, but I don't want to, I'm not inspired! 3. Consistant beat. Last time I heard them we were very dismayed that the drummer did not keep a steady beat. It's harder to tell with lindy (especially if you're in your "musicality mind" listening to the horns and the guitars etc, but if you're doing Shag, you're on the drums and man the inconsistancy stands right out. These are just my humble opinions and why David and I don't go out and see them. I personally think these bands need to decide if they want to play experimental jazz or swing jazz. I know it's all jazz and I won't repeat myself (most of you know how I feel about jazzy jazz)... |
| By Rondoe on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 12:09 pm: Edit |
Hi Andy : All you need to do is take it a half step further and you'll have the same situation that killed of dancing to swing bands in the late forties : bands that play and appeal to the sensabilities of listeners/jazz fans and not dancers. Yes, it evolved and developed...right down a dead end street with a big stone wall at the end that it crashed into and which essentially destroyed it. BTW : Hello! This is the first time I have posted on this forum. |
| By Swiveler on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 12:21 pm: Edit |
Welcome to our site Rondoe! Good point! There has been sooooo much importance placed on "musicality" that I think it's ruining the dance in the same way. I do think good dancers should play with the music, improv, breakaway, experiment, but some of this "musicality" seems to promote bad connection and individual dancing in a dance that is a PARTNER dance. Please don't think I'm trying to offend anyone, just a little crabby today. It seems to me if you want a jazz band and you want to focus on the all-mighty "musicality" then you're missing a little of the joy of partner SWING dancing. I guess if I want THAT much musicality and jazz I will watch a Broadway show or join a performance jazz ensemble group or something. Am I making any sense? Sorry about the spelling mistakes and the tone of my posts, (I'm going to, of course, blame it on the baby dancing in my tummy)... |
| By Andy on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 12:39 pm: Edit |
Man, I'm in a groovin' mood, today. Working at home, listening to my Basie CD (all recorded before 1940, BTW). And, I'm thinking that the "musicality" word has grown to be larger and more misunderstood. I don't know about anyone else, but when I think of musicality (as related to dancing), I don't think about going solo or breaking connection. I think if you go out and watch Meeshi dance, you'll see that he makes up stuff on the fly that just fits with the music AND his partner. So, I don't think musicality is the eventual demise of the dance.. I think it is the soul spirit of it! If you do the same moves over-n-over with the same footwork, same emphasis, etc.. that'll be the demise. Great dancers (which I am not) can do a tuck turn fifty different ways (different feet, body movement, styling, emphasis, etc) When I think of musicality in music, I think of improvs, sounding different each time, playing off dancers during interludes (not the whole song!). That will never be the demise of swing. Some bands sound exactly the same every time you hear them. Might as well put on the record. Freddy A and Uptown Boys sound different every time, and that's fun to me. |
| By gabe on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 01:43 pm: Edit |
Good points Tammy on Freddie A! Last time I saw them, I thought their first set was decent and danceable, but during the second set, on numerous occasions the drummer would just start playing his own thing and the tempo changed like three times during one song. And while it might be hard for beginers to constantly 'play' with their music, I would rather dance to consistent danceable music. Just a simpleton's preferance. |
| By Ron on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 01:46 pm: Edit |
I don't anyone wants them to "evolve" so much they stop being danceable. |
| By Swiveler on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 02:34 pm: Edit |
Andy: "I don't think about going solo or breaking connection" I do agree with you, although, unfortunately, that does not always translate to students, especially new ones. Does that make sense? "I think it is the soul spirit of it! If you do the same moves over-n-over with the same footwork, same emphasis, etc.. that'll be the demise. Great dancers (which I am not) can do a tuck turn fifty different ways (different feet, body movement, styling, emphasis, etc)" I agree and disagree. Yes, I get bored with SOME people doing the same steps in the same order. I also get bored with no personal challenges on the dance floor (doing everything the same), but I tell you, I NEVER tire watching people do the same steps that are truely gifted. I can watch the same classic video clips every night and not be bored (ie. I never get bored of watching Hellzapoppin). I can, however, get VERY bored watching some guy try to style, improv, confuse or "play" the shit out of some follow just because they think they should be dancing out the trumpet solo. I think my point is more about the over-emphasis of "musicality" that seems to be rampant in the current scene. This is not just indicative of SD, by the way. I think a lot of the emphasis has been taken off the basics. Some musicality is BASIC, most is VERY advanced. This is when I become frustrated with the whole emphasis on musicality. |
| By Rondoe on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 03:36 pm: Edit |
Tammy! Hi! I'd be way more comfortable with people's claims of musicality if I actually felt they knew something about the music they were dancing to. As far as 'playing' with the music goes, most of the dancing I've seen where people want to and begin to 'play' with the music winds up with them tossing in lots of silly west coast style, jazz style, ballroom style NON-Lindy moves. Also, making silly faces, too. Ever notice that? But perhaps that just the 'playfulness" I have had to see. |
| By Charlie Yi on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 04:15 pm: Edit |
IMHO: Freddie's a great guy. I've been one of his most staunch supporters. I've gone to see so many of his shows! I even lead a chorus of Happy Birthday for him, when no one else would. I can be objective of Freddie's music because I am a friend of his. But his band lately hasn't been swinging. It's been...grooving. I hate to say it but you gotta draw a line somewhere as to what swings and what doesn't. |
| By Chris Bowling on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 04:43 pm: Edit |
Rondoe, What are NON-lindy moves? |
| By Swiveler on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 04:49 pm: Edit |
Rondoe, I agree and disagree! I LOVE silly faces. Dancing IS fun and silly. I do agree that I personally don't like salsa or hip hop moves in lindy, but that is my personal preference. I also agree that a lot of people don't know squat about music. Although, I don't think they need to know who the drummer or trumpet soloist is to enjoy it and dance successfully to it! Again with the "playing" thing, I just feel like people jump into this before successfully learning how to lead and follow. |
| By Rondoe on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 06:32 pm: Edit |
My favorite (un) non lindy move when people 'play' with the music is the tilted head next to the shoulder as if they are swooning or floating on a cloud. |
| By Rondoe on Monday, November 15, 1999 - 06:35 pm: Edit |
Tam-o-rama ! "Music is a language. The better you understand it, the better you can interpret it." I read that on a cereal box this morning. ;] Love, Rondoe |
| By Cafesavoy on Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - 09:12 am: Edit |
Rondoe, would you share that list of canonical lindy moves so the rest of us can authenticate our moves. Thanks |
| By HopMichael on Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - 10:54 am: Edit |
Lindy move canon: now there's something I'd like to see one day! Then Lindy Hop contest judging would be as easy as ballroom judging...[sarcasm mode off] |
| By Shawn Hanna on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 12:06 am: Edit |
Freddie plays at the Martini Ranch Wednesday nights from 9-12:30pm. There isn't much room, but the floors are wood and the band sounds great! For a nice and easy swing & lounge sound, I highly recommend it! Plus, it is free. Can't beat that. I started the evening at the Juke Joint with the Marty Conley Big Band, and I thought the music was a little flat. The vocalist was great, but they did not sound very "swingy", instead, a bit orchestral. |
| By Shawn Hanna on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 02:49 pm: Edit |
It seems that Freddie A has been replaced by the Joe Marillo Band's Tribute to Sinatra at the Martini Ranch. He was definately having fun as the front man to his little ensemble, but there just wasn't room to dance. |
| Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only Administer Page | Delete Conversation | Close Conversation | Move Conversation |