By Melbamoose on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 04:32 pm: EditTHANK YOU PETER!!
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| By Melbamoose on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 04:32 pm: Edit |
THANK YOU PETER!! |
| By Melbamoose on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 04:36 pm: Edit |
And Ron, maybe not 20 dancers at the Rocket...30, 40 perhaps? You make it seem like "HW/LA stylers" are sitting off in a corner bitching and not dancing...that's hardly the case. |
| By Peter (Peter) (1cust250.tnt37.lax3.da.uu.net - 63.30.170.250) on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 06:05 pm: Edit |
Ok Valerie, Thank you, I also enjoy dancing with you..alot. You don't go for the Music "per say" but indirectly you do. Because, like you said you want to dance with different people etc...meet people etc...and the reason people go there is because it's "happening", and it's happening because so many of the "better" dancers go there why? because the majority music suits them. I'll admit I don't enjoy everything played there however, I am smart enough to know the difference between good all around music and what my personal taste are. Again,when playing music Cater to those that have consantly returned to the clubs first and foremost and make sure they are happy with what is being played. If the "better" dancers don't like what is being played and leave to go to another dance hall, the beginers will follow them to that other place. this cycle has been proven time and time again...... |
| By Lisa Conway on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 09:37 pm: Edit |
Gee Ron. I want to thank you for taking my quote from the San Diego Union totally out of context. Again, you're talking out your ass and trying to make a separation of styles where there isn't one. What I meant when I said that was that there are no more clubs where new people can be drawn in or where people who know nothing about swing music and dancing can gain an interest. It had to do with the declining public interest. Let's face it, the only people that go to the Firehouse and the Rocket are people that are usually brought there by friends. These places are not pulling in people off the street. In the future, I'd appreciate you not quoting me unless you know what I'm talking about. |
| By Swingbaby on Sunday, March 05, 2000 - 11:32 pm: Edit |
I've been pondering the kinda-in-between strain of this conversation and the comparison of The Rocket and The Firehouse. Music selection, tempo, and styles aside, has anyone considered attitude? When I first went to the Rocket after learning a swingout, I was utterly intimidated. If the proprietor hadn't hooked me up with one of the advanced leads and the lead hadn't in turn taken me under his wing, I doubt I would be dancing today. It had nothing to do with the music's tempo or dance style and everything to do with being open toward a beginner. Lately I've noticed that when I go to the Rocket, I have to plead for dances and at the Firehouse I get asked by great leads. Perhaps at the Firehouse, since it seems evident that everyone considers it a "begginer's venue", leads and follows are more open to dancing with a variety of people, not worrying about their style or level. I agree wholeheartedly with previous posts to cater to the more advanced dancers in music selection, but I also hope that the more advanced dancers and all dancers in general try to be considerate and not cliquy (yep that's the way it's spelt, I did my check ;). That's what will really kill the scene and we will end up just having our own private dances in our homes with our particular style danced and our particular music played. Hmmm, sounds kinda nice ;) Alrighty, I think I've finally posted my first "way-too-long-of-a-post" Hope it doesn't sound too corny as well. Ciao! |
| By Ron on Monday, March 06, 2000 - 11:47 am: Edit |
My apologies, Lisa. I agree that its essential to have clubs where new people can be drawn in. Like the Catamaran, the Marriott, and now Cafe Savoy/Claytons. On catering to advanced dancers, I can see the point there. Heck yeah, we'd better keep the hard-core regulars happy. But I think we can cater to the beginners, too. The idea of playing slower music at the Rocket from 9:00 to 10:00 has some merit, but I think its also good to play a few higher-energy tunes early in the evening to get the energy up. Peter, the style differences in SD aren't so obvious in person. People seem to get along personally, just fine, and sharing the same venues mostly. The style differences in SD seem to be highlighted on this forum and seem to correlate roughly with who complains the most. Swingbaby, on Firehouse vs Rocket and cliquiness, you're right, and its wierd. Personally, I've been asking more random peeople to dance at the Firehouse than the Rocket, maybe its cause I sense people are more relaxed there due to whatever set of reasons, (including darker, like Nancyanne pointed out...) |
| By Andy on Monday, March 06, 2000 - 12:44 pm: Edit |
RE Peter's comment: "all I see from S.D. is a style difference and some weird politics attached to it. The sooner everyone realizes down there that Lindy Hop is Lindy Hop and everybody has their own individual style the better" Now, ain't that the pot callin' the kettle "black"? All of our scenes have had some politics associated with it... and I agree with your "Lindy is Lindy" message. For those of us immersed in SD's scene, we know that there really is very little "politicking" going on. It's a select few with very loud voices (or prolific typing)... For those who really only know SD from the net, I can see how it would appear that there is great turmoil. Before anyone judges SD, come out dancing here, meet the people, and then form your opinion. I hope people don't get too turned off by what goes on on the net (for either LA or SD) |
| By Peter (Peter) (1cust155.tnt7.lax1.da.uu.net - 63.24.150.155) on Tuesday, March 07, 2000 - 01:48 am: Edit |
ANDY THE HITMAN: >RE: Peter's comment: "all I see from S.D. is a >style difference and some weird politics >attached to it. The sooner everyone realizes >down there that Lindy Hop is Lindy Hop and >everybody has their own individual style the >better" WHOA!!! NOT ONLY DID YOU TAKE SENTENCE OUT OF A PARAGRAPH,BUT YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE THE WHOLE SENTENCE! YOU LEFT OUT THE KEY FACTOR OF MY POST! SCROLL UP AND YOU WILL SEE THAT I POSTED: "AS FOR THE INTERNET, all I see from S.D. is a style difference and some weird politics attached to it." and yes, lately thats all I've seen on the INTERNET!!!!! >Now, ain't that the pot callin' the >kettle "black"? is It? I don't dance in an area that defines styles or even worse; plays certain music for different styles.......and I always bash those that "feed" the style war. >All of our scenes have had some politics >associated with it... and I agree with >your "Lindy is Lindy" message. Thank you, I wish everybody did.... >For those of us immersed in SD's scene, we know >that there really is very little "politicking" >going on. It's a select few with very loud >voices (or prolific typing)... For those who >really only know SD from the net, I can see how >it would appear that there is great turmoil. Yes, I KNOW IT IS ONLY A COUPLE OF PEOPLE but I wish not to attack anyone personally because I don't live there and have to deal with it on a day to day basis. >Before anyone judges SD, come out dancing here, >meet the people, and then form your opinion. I >hope people don't get too turned off by what >goes on on the net (for either LA or SD) I have danced all around this country and the PEOPLE from S.D. are not only some of the friendliest but the MOST commited to keeping their scene alive. I started dancing in SD in 95 because my X was from La Mesa and still today I think all dancers should hang out in SD, I say take a week and enjoy it..... |
| By HopMichael on Wednesday, March 08, 2000 - 06:56 pm: Edit |
Now, if that's not an endorsement for the upcoming SwingBreak, I don't know what is! =) |
| By Peter (Peter) (1cust100.tnt5.lax1.da.uu.net - 63.24.118.100) on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 03:09 am: Edit |
hahaha well what can I say? Oh Yea, Boycott DJ's that cater to only one crowd of people, and play one set tempo range..... |
| By Reuben Brown on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 10:03 am: Edit |
I can't think of any DJ who only caters to one crowd of people, but I can think of a few who only play one set of tempos. |
| By NancyAnne on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 11:36 am: Edit |
Since this topic is still kicking, I thought I post another view from the great mind of another jitter-goddess. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Nancy, It's Lisa Ferguson. That is a very odd concept, to only play slower tempos the whole night. New dancers come and go, but the better dancers are obviously here to stay. Nobody learns how to dance overnight. It takes a certain amount of love for the dance, patience, and work to break past that beginning level and up into the intermediate and advanced levels. Why would anyone want to "turn off" repeat customers? They've proven themselves loyal to the dance why punish them? I remember when I couldn't dance past a certain tempo, but if those faster tempos were'nt played and I didn't see dancers dancing to them I wouldn't have had anything to aspire to; especially when we had alot of venues with live music. Bands usually play medium and up-tempo with a few ballads here and there. If I wanted to dance to everything the band was throwing out there then I had to get my feet in gear. I think that only playing slow music and driving away the better dancers is a real disservice to the beginner. I see I've totally rambled here. Some dancers will be happy at the slow tempos, some will be happy at the medium tempos, some at the fast, some will welcome a challenge, some will enjoy watching the better dancers cut a rug, and some will be happy not being happy. I think your club will have a better chance of survival if they keep the tempos varried. Over and out. Lisa |
| By Ron on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 02:32 pm: Edit |
NancyAnne, I agree that playing only slow tempos all night would be way wrong. Variety is the way to go. Hopefully the mix of song styles and tempos that the Rocket DJs play will be varied enough to suit more than one subgroup of dancers. I, for one, don't want to drive anyone away from any venue. |
| By Chris on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 05:38 pm: Edit |
Apparently our scene isn't the only one to go through some hard times. Here is an e-mail I received from the West Coast Swing Community locally. San Diego Doubletree Closing? Rumor has it that the Doubletree Mission Valley may no longer be offering dancing on Tuesday nights. I called our fabulous DJ KJ for the scoop and he says that the Hilton now owns the Doubletree and is thinking of closing the club down on Monday, Tuesdays and Wedesdays. Evidently, the drink revenues aren't enough to cover all the expenses ( KJ's talent fee, lights, and bar staff). KJ says he's got five weeks left on his contract and has not yet been given notice. If it happens, it's unfortunate...we've all heard this story before. Dancers don't seem to drink enough to support a bar, but we have been lucky enough to enjoy dancing at the Doubletree for quite some time time. There is something you can do! Put a call in to management at the Doubletree to let them know how much Tuesday night dancing will be missed. Luckily we have devoted people in our scene that have brought us through those undirected times. We are pretty lucky to have 5 weekly DJ'd dances, and in between some bands on the off nights. If one wanted to, they could go dancing 7 nights a week in San Diego!! That's more than some swing communities have! I feel very fortunate, and sometimes feel that I don't take advantage of all of the offerings. Then again, my work has owned me for the past few weeks, sigh. . . |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 05:21 pm: Edit |
Well maybe people should start taking up Salsa. You can find somewhere to dance Salsa every night of the week pretty much. Or maybe the Swingsters should start drinking more. What's the solution? hmmmmm |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 05:31 pm: Edit |
One person who has been successful in holding a regular swing night is Patti Wells of the Patti Wells Dancetime center. She has been holding regular swing dance nights for the last 20+ years. What's her secret? Let's ponder this thread. |
| By Thebeat (Thebeat) on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 06:06 pm: Edit |
Her secret is...good advertising can draw a constant flow of new dancers. There is not a quality dancer in San Diego who polished their skills at her studio. Plenty did start there. |
| By Anonymous on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 05:12 pm: Edit |
True but moreso than advertising, her dance fees are low compared to many other studios. And to top that her repeatable classes are totally free till the end of time. Consequently this enables her to form a rather large customer base. On another not: From my experience the Lindy crowd has always seemed to be rather cliquesh. Maybe if the Lindy crowd were more open to other dancers and music maybe more new dancers could be attracted to the Lindy scene. |
| By Reuben Brown on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 03:23 am: Edit |
If the Lindy crowd were more open to other dancers and music, it would no longer be a Lindy scene. |
| By Kate on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 05:17 pm: Edit |
As cool as it is to be open to other music and dance styles.... I think that good dancing consists largely of habit. You don't have time to think about style when you're dancing. You just have time to react. If you take up too many dances, your style ends up being the same for all of them. That's why ballroom is so homogenized. I'm all for being open to new people, and trying new things, but it sounds like some people are suggesting playing a mix of lindy music and music for other dances. In that case we may as well go to the Saturday nite dance at Arthur Murray and Waltz to Celine Deon..... |
| By Jane Hance on Monday, May 29, 2000 - 10:20 am: Edit |
I doubt if there are very many people who want a music dance-mix at the Lindy dances. I don't think too many people are suggesting that. There are plenty of other places to go dancing if you like to mix it up. As for style, I agree that everyone has a unique style about them, and thus about their dancing. And I agree that good dancing consists mostly of habbit. But I don't agree that if you know and do a variety of dances on a regular basis that they will all look the same. Most dancers will take their knowledge/training/experience (because now it's habbit) of their first dance and initially try to apply it to their next dance. As they learn the rules of each dance, that similarity starts to go away. One's general style will carry over and one's personality will be presented through each dance, but a good dancer will make each dance look entirely different with it's own character. For instance, I doubt if Meeshi's Tango will look too much like his Lindy. And, by the way, trying to force a Lindy to a latin tune looks a bit odd to me, especially when there are so many Latin dances out there that could be done instead. If you like more than one style of music, learning other dances is the way to go. Oh, and Ballroom is a completely different thing and tends to look the same (to the non-ballroom dancing public) because it is all based on the same "big" frame, way of carring yourself and connecting with your partner on the dance floor and has very rigid rules that have to be followed. And the Latin ballroom dances don't look anything like the standard ballroom dances. Also, ALL Lindy looks the same to the outsider or begginer. It's not until you get to know the dance that the different stylings appear. Sorry for the long post. I couldn't help myself :) Jane PS: Come dancing with me Kate, I'll show you what I mean 1st hand. I'm serious, e-mail me. |
| By Peter (Peter) on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 05:01 am: Edit |
Tango dancers look like they are tango dancers when they Lindy,West Coast swing dancers look like west coast swing dancers when they Lindy,Jive dancers look like Jive dancers when they Lindy. It's the strickness of other dances that spill over into the style their Lindy, because of Muscle memory or Habit. It's actually a good thing in a way, it gives more dances another variation of identity when they dance instead of looking like everybody else. |
| By Jane Hance on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 08:56 am: Edit |
If dancers are aware of the technical differences in the dances they are learning, and have a feel for the music they are dancing to, they can take the other dances out of their Lindy while retaining and using their solid dance basics. It just takes a desire to do so and a lot of practice. That's the fun part. By the way, why don't you think Lindy has it's own set of fairly strict rules? Seams to me it does. |
| By Kate on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 12:47 pm: Edit |
Actaully.... Meeshi sticks out his but when he Tangoes. I do it to. The lindy posture gets stuck in your muscle memory and it's really hard to get it out. Mike pointed out that I also do this funky kick thing sometimes when I do Ochos. All 'cause of Lindy. |
| By Chris on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 01:51 pm: Edit |
Jane, I'm sure lindy has strict rules from the point of view of the instructor/dancer that one is talking to or taking lessons. I'm pretty sure there isn't a book on the subject like the strict rules Vernon Castle and his wife created for Ballroom dancing. Peter: I agree with your above post about the different dances and styles filtering into other dances. I don't know nor have I spoken with the original dancers of the Lindy that you have, Peter. Did they dance other dances and bring those elements into the Lindy? To all: I think the problem that could arise or is existing is that Lindy is being changed from the original way it was danced. Maybe, dancers that do the original, or close to the original, feel that Lindy is not Lindy anymore? The same problem is going on currently with the Carolina Shag (CS) and West Coast Swing (WCS). A lot of the younger CS dancers are merging WCS into their CS, and that is upsetting the dancers that do the traditional CS. Change is inevitable, and when one watches a dance competition the winners are usually the ones that are pushing the envelope w/ new moves, tricks, aerials, etc. Recently Lindy dancers have been looking towards Rock n Roll Dancers for new aerials to bring into their dance (as an example). This keeps the dance alive and thriving, but the dance also needs the dancers that preserve the roots of the dance, they keep the dance's elements in perspective. What I mean is, the preservationalists don't let the dance change into a dance that does not resemble the original dance. There needs to be a balance between the preservationalists and the non-preservationalists. When the dancers start straying from the original, the preservationalists become more active; and when there isn't change going on the preservationalists should be less active. Otherwise, without the preservationalists Lindy would be transformed into a dance that resembles nothing like the original and not danced to the music that it was created by - 30's swing. |
| By Natalie Roy on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 02:01 pm: Edit |
Chris, I agree with your statement. It is the individual dancer's choice as to whether he wants to preserve original dance forms for posterity, or wants to dance for dance's sake. But one group shouldn't despise the other. Also when was original Lindy still original. All social dances constantly evolve, so at which exact point is Lindy 'real' Lindy? And do we really have anybody dancing it who was there and hasn't evolved also? |
| By HopMichael on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 03:15 pm: Edit |
Plus ca change... |
| By Chris on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 03:23 pm: Edit |
Natalie, Your right - one shouldn't despise the other. Just like any child rebels from their parents when they grow up. I don't think the groups despise one another, I don't think they get along like best friends either. I think Peter Loggins would best answer your last question about the "origianl Lindy." But here is my take on it: Lindy doesn't have a set of guide lines like Ballroom does. It was a free and open dance, that was influenced by the music it was danced to. Always being created and improvised - like Jazz. But Jazz Swing even had a structure to it. (If you read the discussion that has been going on between John Cooper and Michael Hwang on this forum, you will get a better understanding of music structure in Swing.) The Lindy was created from the music it was danced to - 30's swing. Bands that played swing through the 40's followed the same structure as the earlier bands did. Be-bop was the only musical change that occured during the 40's, and that music was undanceable. The only information we have on the Lindy is through films and a few dancers that are still alive, Frankie, Jean Veloz, Her brother, Norma Miller, and a few others. Those are the only references we have. So from the films, articles, and people that have spoken to those still alive Lindy Hop was the dance that was danced to the bands that played swing from the mid 30's to the early 50's. The style of Lindy changed when Rock n Roll, R&B, and Jump Blues became popular - that style was called Bop. It looked completely different with a different basic - a 6 count instead of an 8 count. Yet, it's origins are based on the Lindy. So when the music changed, so did the dance. Even Dean Collins' style changed later in his life. When Sylvia Sykes and Jonathan Bixby took lessons from Dean they learned a verson they called "Smooth Style." It was similar to what Dean did in his earlier years, but his agility and physical restraints prevented him from teaching Sylvia and Jonathan his earlier style. Plus, the fact that he probably didn't dance as much when he got older so it wasn't as fresh in his mind. Yes, dances evolve and they will continue. What is "real" Lindy? I think Lindy can be used as a broad definition for forms of "swing dancing" that have their roots from the earlier style found in the 30's and 40's. I think dancing to Rock n Roll, Jump Blues, and Bluesy Jazz Swing create different body expressions that you won't find in 30's and 40's swing dancing. That music (Rock n Roll, Jump Blues, and Bluesy Jazz Swing) came after 30's swing and was influenced by it - often musicians that played in the big bands played in the smaller jump bands later in the forties. So, the "real" Lindy originated in the late 30's and progressed into the late 40's. Variations of the dance surfaced in the late forties with the introduction of new music. We are blessed to be able to hear all the different styles of music that have their origins in swing. Yet, it is easy to be blinded by various styles of music, and it is easy to think that all the music we dance to was played back in the days. In reality, we are listening to music that spands from the 30's to modern day. There is really no one in particular that dances exactly the way the original dancers danced in the 30's and 40's. Even the dancers that danced back then dance differently. I think several of the LA dancers dance SIMILAR to the dancers that danced back then. Peter Loggins is the first that comes to mind, he strives to dance in the fashion of the original dancers that he admires. |
| By Jeff Eldridge on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 04:00 pm: Edit |
I want to see Meeshi and Kate "tango" to Van Halen's "Dance the Night Away"...then I want to "lindy" to "Unchained" on the same CD. Let's just dance and have fun!!! Get back to work! All of ya!!! |
| By Natalie Roy on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 05:04 pm: Edit |
Pot, kettle, black, call |
| By Jane Hance on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 11:54 pm: Edit |
Keep working on that butt muscle memory, Kate. I'm sorry, but butts sticking out while doing the Tango is not a pretty sight. I didn't notice Liz's butt sticking out when she and Mike did their showcase the other night, so it is possible to get that under control :) Practice, practice, practice .... |
| By Jane Hance on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:05 am: Edit |
And Chris, I wasn't referring to Ballroom to compare rules. Ballroom is taking it to the extreme. But all the social dances (West Coast, Carolina Shag, Cha Cha, Salsa, Hustle, etc) have rules that need to be followed. And I think that Lindy has just as many rules, if not more, than a lot of other dances. That's one reason it's so hard to learn. |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 09:57 am: Edit |
If Lindy Hop has so many rules, then it wouldn't be to hard for you to list at least a few of them here for us Jane. I'm all ears... |
| By Ron on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:16 am: Edit |
I'll try. 1. Lindy should be danced to whatever kind of music that makes you want to Lindy, be it big-band, jump-blues, modern jazz, or Elvis. 2. Drink lots of water so you won't get dehydrated, its bad for you. 3. Dance to the music. 4. Make sure your antiperspirant/deoderant is fresh. 5. Don't complain about the DJ, they are very sensitive people. 6. Don't judge the Lindy scene by what people write in the forum. 7. Support your local swing bands. 8. Clap for your local swing bands. 9. Get lessons from different instructors, and then make your own style. 10. Whatever you do, don't dance like Reuben. |
| By Sohhh (Sohhh) on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:29 am: Edit |
Well Reuben? |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:36 am: Edit |
1. I never heard of the word "should" being used in rule writing. Furthermore, it's to broad a statement to be a rule. 2. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about any physical activity. 3. What part of the music? This is to broad a statement to be a rule. 4. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about not smelling like Ron. 5. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about the DJ. 6. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about people. 7. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about bands. 8. This isn't about Lindy Hop, it's about bands. 9. This is an opionion, not a rule. 10. This is an opionion, not a rule. However, please, by all means, follow this one like a rule. 11. Isn't isn't a word. Still waiting to hear some Lindy Hop rules... |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:53 am: Edit |
Well Anonymous? |
| By Sohhh (Sohhh) on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:54 am: Edit |
Um, 1. Do not bounce up on a down beat. 2. Do not dance LH to salsa music. 3. Emulate the style of LH dancers from the 30's and 40's exactly. |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:57 am: Edit |
1. So if you bounce up on a down beat, your not doing Lindy Hop? 2. Why not? Says who? This is an opinion, not a rule. 3. Why would you want to do that? This is an opinion, not a rule. |
| By Lisa Conway on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:09 am: Edit |
Here's a rule Reub...lindy hop is in EVEN counts, not odd counts. hehe Ex: a seven count swingout is not a swingout at all. |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:17 am: Edit |
Ron actually smells pretty good. It would be great if more men smelled like Ron. |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:23 am: Edit |
Ha, ha... but, of course, so is West Coast. Sure we can create some "rules" that are very, VERY basic, but they would end up being applicable to so many other dances. Bottom line is, Lindy Hop is a street dance... no matter what style do like, no matter what kind of music you want to dance it too. It's a no holds bar, anything goes dance. That's why it's so fucking rad, and at the same time that's also why we all fight about it so much. |
| By Sohhh (Sohhh) on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:26 am: Edit |
A RULE: 1. A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior. 2. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most or all cases: In this office, hard work is the rule, not the exception. I think you are wrong on your assessment of rules! A R[e]UBE[n]: An unsophisticated country fellow. |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:33 am: Edit |
By your definition of "rule" you make it even more clear that "rules" can not be applied to Lindy Hop. There is no "true in most or all cases" when it comes to Lindy Hop. Lindy Hop is to diverse. However, your definition of R[e]UBE[n] is right on target. |
| By Natalie Roy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:45 am: Edit |
Reuben, very few rules, especially in dance are absolute. By the way, it's "too broad". |
| By Sohhh (Sohhh) on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:45 am: Edit |
Rules may not define what LH is, but they can tell us what LH is not. Those same rules probably work for WCS, but they are still rules. (The definition is Websters, so I will not take credit for this interpretation of the English language.) |
| By Natalie Roy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:46 am: Edit |
Rule: LH is NEVER danced en pointe |
| By Andy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 11:55 am: Edit |
ah, reuben... how convenient.. now you embrace diversity in Lindy Hop to support your latest argument. |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:01 pm: Edit |
And how am I NOW embracing the diversity in Lindy Hop? I still prefer preserving the original form of Lindy Hop, but I will never deny the fact that since Lindy Hop is a street dance, it will always be very diverse. That does NOT mean I like everything that is being done with it, nor does it mean that I "embrace" all the diveristy within Lindy Hop. I accept it, I do not embrace it. |
| By Andy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:10 pm: Edit |
So, then you concede that Lindy does not HAVE to be done to 'S'wing music?! Though, you prefer to dance to a type of music, the diversity of Lindy allows it to be danced to many types of music...you're willing to accept that as well, right? |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:20 pm: Edit |
Why call it "swing" when dancing to music that caused swing dancers to quit dancing and get jobs in post offices? |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:29 pm: Edit |
No, it does not have to be done to Swing music. However, I am of the OPINION that it should be danced to Swing music, as that was the music is was originally intended for. However, there is no RULE about it. This is where things get rather fuzzy though, because when you're doing Lindy to rock and roll, you may start doing rock and roll dancing rather then Lindy. Or, when you are doing Lindy to slow Blues music, you are likly to start Blues dancing rather then do Lindy. What I mean is, sure, you could Lindy to that stuff, but does it really fit the music, and vice versa? For example, when I force fit what has the form of Lindy Hop to "Don't Stop The Music," I am of the opinion that I am no longer doing Lindy Hop, however, there is no rule stating that I am not. |
| By Jane Hance on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:43 pm: Edit |
Gosh, I can't post from work, so I feel so left out of these daytime discussions! Rules. Hmmm.....it's true that a lot of what I see as Rules for Lindy are general dance basic stuff. But some are Lindy specific and if one doesn't apply them, one's dancing doesn't feel as good. I'm not an intructor or a very advanced Lindy dancer, but here's a stab at some (I do Savoy, by the way) that have helped me separate my dances from each other and to improve my Lindy follow: 1.Keep your motion going towards your partner *In WC you sit back a bit more 2.Soften the knees, move the hips side-to-side *in WC the hip motion is more Latin and the posture is more upright. 3.Slotting is not rigid; keep squaring up to your partner. *In WC the slot is well defined and you stay in it unless your parner moves you off it. 4.How to do the basic swingout. *Swingout does not exist in WC. 5.Swivel technique: how and when to do this. *Done differently in WC, used only occasionally. 6.On a whip, the follow keeps the right foot forward on counts 3 & 4, pressing into (not placing a full weight transfer onto) the left foot behind on the "&" count. *In WC, the follow steps back-together-forward on counts 3 & 4 of a whip, weighting each step. If you don't call these Rules, then you must call them something because without them the dance does not look or feel like Lindy. Gotta go.Back later. Jane |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 12:51 pm: Edit |
To keep this short Jane, those are all styling techniques, not rules. |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 01:18 pm: Edit |
Lindy should be dome in "EVAN" counts! |
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 01:30 pm: Edit |
*LOL* |
| By HopMichael on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 01:32 pm: Edit |
This has got to be a rare day: I actually agree completely with Reuben on one of his posts: Reuben wrote: === Sure we can create some "rules" that are very, VERY basic, but they would end up being applicable to so many other dances. Bottom line is, Lindy Hop is a street dance... no matter what style do like, no matter what kind of music you want to dance it too. It's a no holds bar, anything goes dance. That's why it's so fucking rad, and at the same time that's also why we all fight about it so much. === |
| By Heather Hawley on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 02:17 pm: Edit |
I too would have to agree with Reuben--I don't think Lindy has "rules" either. I don't say that from any depth of lindy experience, but from experience with ballet. It really does have a code--there's a freakin' term for any one of 6 directions your body and feet might be facing relative to the audience. It's that specific. But ballet, codified as it is, has been taken out of its original context and mixed with the other dances--while still remaining ballet. It's made it more exciting, I think, that balanchine took inspiration from fred astaire, or that people do ballets to the rolling stones. That's the only way the dance can keep growing without becoming stale. A lot of people thought ballet would disappear when choreographers started incorporating new ideas at the beginning of this century. heck, people RIOTED when Nijinsky premeired Rite of Spring. They didn't just flame eachother on a virtual forum. For me, Lindy's lack of rules is the most refreshing thing about it. It evolves as quickly as someone makes up a new step. And no offense to purists, but the more I can dance dances to music they weren't originally intended for, the happier I'll be. I don't want to lose lindy style, I think it looks too cool. But I think dances are a lot more flexible than people give them credit for. |
| By Jane Hance on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 02:36 pm: Edit |
OK. Styling techniques. Lindy has a lot of styling techniques that make it different from other dances. These styling techniques can be difficult to learn and get hard-wired into muscle memory. Does that sound better, Reuben? |
| By Andy on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 02:37 pm: Edit |
I can touch my toes! |
| By Reuben Brown on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 02:39 pm: Edit |
Actually yes Jane, much better. That makes perfect sense. |
| By Jeff Eldridge on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 02:49 pm: Edit |
It's interesting that dance, like language, reflects culture. I believe it's the reason that as culture changes and moves on, so do the dances of that culture. Maybe that's why some dancing the lindy hop of the 30's and 40's also adopt the clothing and others idioms of that day in addition to the music. |