To Hop Or Not To Hop?

SwingOrama Forum: Lindy Hop: To Hop Or Not To Hop?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Charlie Yi on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 09:19 am: Edit

I have a pretty long commute in the morning (40 min or more depending on traffic). I also ride a motorcycle, so I can't listen to the radio or just kick back with a cup of coffee or a cigarette. Sometimes I sing to myself to try and pass the time, and sometimes I lose myself in daydreams and thoughts.

This morning as I was weaving my way down I-5 between the seas of cars and SUV's, I started to ask myself, why?
Why do I dance? And why Lindy? Why not Salsa, or other ballroom dances?

Sure I could just give the stock answer "Because it's so much fun!"

But as I pondered on this, I realized there are a lot of other things that I like and consider very fun, but I don't spend tons of dough or countless hours of practice on them. For instance, there's been a media-storm concerning the upcoming relase of "Star Wars, Episode I:The Phantom Menace." We've all talked about how those people camping out in line have got to be out of their minds and so on.

Upon a bit of introspection, I realized that I am just as fanatical about Lindy and the entire swing scene. When I stopped to consider the amount of money and time I've put into my dancing, I figured if I had invested my time and money in other ways, I could've bought a new car, written two novels, and started a small business on the side!

So what is the allure? Is it the romance of an era that we are trying to revive or re-invent? Is it discovering the novelty of expressing yourself with your body? I know it's a bit philosphical, and there are, of course, no right or wrong answers. I guess I would just like to know what your thoughts are on this phenemenon that some of us have created or nurtured. And please...if you feel that one should "not think so much about it and just enjoy it", then at least write about the "feelings" that you have for the dance. I know some of us are more thoughtful and contemplative vs. emotional and care-free.

Well?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Swiveler on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 10:23 am: Edit

Ummmm, well, I think about this a lot. And I HAVE started a business on the side(Swivel Magazine).
Granted, I don't make any money and I still have a day job, but it has taken over my life.
Anyway, what is it about swing. The Romance? The expression, the fun???

Well, I can only speak for myself. I had a facination with dance and the 40's since I was a kid. Plus I've always been a bit of a performer/artist, (I use to act, write, perform poetry and do performance art).

Then all of a sudden there was an outlet for my passion, (I learned how to swing dance). In part it's the romance, the ideal of a gentler time, a time of more defined roles. (I will concede that it is much easier to romanticize in retrospect, I would not want to be cleaning house and being a housewife without the modern conveniences of today and the choice to be or not to be a housewife).

Also, it's a sense of identity. I don't define myself by my day job. I'd rather define myself by my leisure, as a swing dancer, a teacher, a publisher and a vintage fashion goddess!

I also am attracted to the quality and the idea of quality from that era. Clothing, cars, furniture, dishes, everything was made in the U.S.A. and it was made to last. It wasn't a plastic throw away society. Philosophically speaking, I find this time (1990's) very confusing, unsettling, transparent, compared to the solidness of the swing era. (I know I'm rambling a bit, sorry).

So, for me it's about:
Passion
Romance
Self Exprssion
Self Identity
Sociality
Quality of life
Fun

I guess that sums it up. Ya I'm a bit fanatical, but no one gives the sports fan a second glance. Think of it, he spends countless hours and dollars watching and participating in sports related events. He buys sports related clothing, decorations, dishes, you name it. He doesn't get a second look if he wears his Padres shirt to work on casual friday, but let me tell ya how many looks I get when I wear my saddle shoes, and letterman's sweater. Interesting...

Oh, and why not Salsa or Zydeco or something else. Well, it's the era thing, the whole package that goes along with swing dancing. I love the Cha Cha though, (I would do more dances if my man wanted to). Also, I want to be good a swing and focus all of my energies on perfecting this style (L.A. 40's style that is).

Well, I hope that helps.
See you tommorrow at the contest.(Oh, I'm currently taking bribes, wink wink).

Tam

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ron Bloom on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 12:49 pm: Edit

For me its about:
Excitement
Challenge
Creativity
Social aspects
Satisfaction of a good workout
and of course
The Music

And maybe others out there like other kinds of social dancing, but forget Polkas, Tangos and Waltzes, I love Blues and Jazz and to find this way to dance to them is most excellent.

Its about the satisfaction of really dancing to the music, nailing that phrase or break. Its about the thrill of dancing with a partner for the first time and discovering just how well you are communicating. Its about the comfort of dancing with a regular who always wants to dance with you and who knows your repetoire better than you. Its about the smiles that you smile at each other when you finish an excellent dance. Its about the fun of interacting with a group of people that are all addicts of the same thing.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Nancyanne on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 01:46 pm: Edit

It's about the shoes……Come'on you'z guy'z
-Those wing-tips
-A clean pair of white bucks
-Slippery, sexy boat shoes
-Them Hush-Puppys
-Boys Saddle Shoes (Uh, Huh!)
-Shadow's Adidas's
-Blue Suede's for Elvis night at Tio Leos

Gals how about
-Wedgies! Wedgies! Wedgies!
-Chromed Keds
-Two-tone saddle shoes
-Platform wedgies for formal nights in LA
-Capezio for Sat. afternoon practice
-Susan's Ruby-Red Blyers

I get all spiritual as I gaze at my Lindy shoe collection. :>}

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Stars and Stripes Forever on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 02:03 pm: Edit

For me, there are so many things about the dance that light my fire... several y'all have already written about.

The dance, quite often, lifts me up, takes me away from cares or troubles. This happened just the other nite. I was feeling a little tired, grumpy, unsociable.. not sure why. But, then I had that one dance, where me and my partner really seemed to connect, played with the music, goofed off, laughed, hit everything and just seemed to flow. When I was done, whatever it was that was getting me down had been chased off. I can't really describe the feeling, but I'm sure many of you have experienced "the lightness of being". This is one of the many things that I love about the dance.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Swiveler on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Ron, you can do all those things with other forms of dance as well. Please elaborate. What is it about swing? Forget Polka's? Bring 'em on it's triple-step-orama! I love it. It's the original drink a lot and dance, dance!!!!

Okay Nancy, you caught me, it is ALL about the shoes! I love my green wedgies, I love my black suade platforms with the ankle strap that make me taller than David! You know the fashion is part of the romance I was talking about. For you and I anyway.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Swingkitten on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 04:28 pm: Edit

I have to agree with Hitman - I love this dance because of the way it makes me feel. Whenever I'm feeling down all I have to do is Yodie Yodie and I laugh . Lindy gives me that warm fuzzy feeling - the same one I get when I wear my favorite overalls and put my hair up in pigtails. And because of this dance I have come to really enjoy big band music and started wanting to learn more about the era. And Nancy was absolutely correct about the shoes!

luvlindy

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Stars and Stripes Forever on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 04:37 pm: Edit

While I'm feeling sappy and sentimental... I think swing creates a great atmosphere to meet and really get to know people. Quite different from the bar scene or the dance club scene. I'd have to say thanks to Swing for bringing me together with such a great group of friends. (with the accent of the guy in the beer commercial) I luv you, man!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Twirly on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 05:07 pm: Edit

I think about it a lot – why do I dance, why have I devoted so much time and $$ to this pursuit and why will I continue to do so? Several reasons: I love the music and it’s wonderful to be able to actually feel the music through your dancing and express what your feeling with your whole body, not just your toe!, and for someone who wasn’t particularly good at sports in school, I love the (continual!) challenge of trying to master control over my body. And of course I love the social aspect, the people I’ve met, the touching, the smiles, and the challenge and delight of communicating with someone on an entirely different level – no words even needed!

Twirly!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By HopMichael on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Charlie, you must be reading my mind!

I've been thinking about why swing is so addictive as well. I've been trying to explain to my non-dancer friends what it is about Lindy that keeps me looking forward to dances/workshops/lessons/etc. So here are my current thoughts:

1. Music: After musicality lessons from the Paul and Sharon workshop and from our own Meeshi, I realize why I love the big band/jazz/blues genre. It's the classic sound of standard tunes orchestrated to a beat that invites dancing. It's arrangements sophisticated to invite interested listening but not so complex or abstruse to discourage dancing. It's the great use of all the instruments in a big band, and not just the solo wailing of a single guitar or keyboard in most rock groups. It's a bass beat that drives the dance but has enough breaks and syncopations to keep the rhythm fresh and surprising. And of course, it's the 8 count! Enough time for a musical phrase of two 4/4 measures that's perfect for a swingout but short enough to go on to the next phrase and next dance move. The music and dance are a perfect match. (Sorry, Jitterbuggers, EC Swingers! 6 count now feels clipped to me).

2. The Skill/Challenge. Lindy ain't easy to pick up in one try. So there's always a secret delight in showing off to beginners/lookie-loos the fancy footwork and striking moves. Learning new steps/moves is like learning new words in a language: the more our vocabulary grows, the more accurately and richly we can express ourselves. No, I'm not advocating that one become a move monster; rather, I hope one can draw upon a deep background to say/express/lead/follow the right word/move for the right moment.

Face it, dancing is not a straight-off easy hobby. It's a stylized form of visual movement; you don't naturally walk down the street in a triple step! When an observer watches a dancer, he/she sees a thoughtful patterned movement of the body. The observer often reacts by saying "Wow! That was cool!" because dance is an uncommon form of movement in the mundane world. And it's because the dancer has worked hard at his/her skill to create that stylized impression that that reaction is drawn. It's like looking at a newly constructed skyscraper and knowing that though you yourself can easily put in a couple of rivets or paint a single wall, you're awed at the summation of all that organized labor.

So, attaining a skill level that can be appreciated by others is a perpetual challenge.

3. Communication: All the above could easily be done by a solo instrumentalist. However, it's your partner that brings out the fun, tension, apprehension, and thrill of dance. Anyone can dance by himself alone (a la Tom Cruise/Risky Business); but it's a brave soul who takes on a partner and knows together they can catch that magic moment or fall off their high wire together.

Dance is an amazing form of non-verbal communication. We're confronted by verbal and body language everyday. In dance, body language is the only language!

I love dancing with a new partner (beginner or advanced) because it's like starting an interesting conversation with a foreigner: what do you share in common? what do you do differently? In those first few swingouts, the basis is laid for the rest of the dance. I love watching my partner style like mad; I'm trying to give lots of space nowadays (nod to Meeshi) to my follows. I love seeing the reactions in follows to unfamiliar leads. Will they wilt or will they blossom inspired? It's that uncertainty of a new follow, a dynamic dance, changing music, and the ambience of other skilled dancers that challenges me to find that "zone" where I can dance/talk with my follow at mutual ease.

Besides dancing with new partners, I love dancing with good friends. Though there is less tension than with new partners, there is now the fun of play with the familiar. Repeating sequences learned together evokes memories and smiles of recognition. Shared experience always remains grounds for friendship. Fave follows/leads are faves because both know there is a sure promise of good dancing. And with that fear allayed, playing with the familiar and unfamiliar becomes much more accessible. We can joke/parody/provoke with less reserve.

4. Joy. Hitman, SwingKitten, I hear you. I think when you and your partner are in that "zone," when your feet are going where you want them too, when the band is really cookin' -- well the rest of the world doesn't seem to bad. I spend all day in an office. When I go out to dance, I leave my worries there and express myself in dance. I love discovering new partners, new moves, and new music. It's very hard not to smile when you nail that break or surprise (or be surprised by) your partner. If I found no joy in the dance, you'd no longer see me on the dance floor.

5. People. Having just moved from another city, it's great to have met so many good dancers so quickly. Lindy attracts a certain crowd. You've got to be creative but disciplined as well. You've gotta be retro enough to love the old tunes whether out of genuine reverence or sly tongue-in-cheek. You’ve gotta be a bit of an exhibitionist but still be gracious and courteous (it IS a social dance). You’ve gotta want to rise above the fray of formless nightclub dancing but still maintain a conformity to form to share a dance with your fellow Lindy Hopper. You have an appreciation for the structure of the dance that anchors it but also love the freedom to express yourself in its creative space. Hitman, it’s definitely a singular crowd, and I’m proud to be among ‘em. I’m constantly impressed by the background of my fellow dancers; they come from all walks of life but share a commonality that goes beyond the dance. [It might be interesting to do a survey one of these days.]

Sorry folks for clogging up your browsers. Thanks for putting up with the verbiage. I ‘m not normally so wordy, but the topic touched off a few thoughts that have been brewing for a couple months and I thought it would be great to get them down in print.

PS, Hey, Charlie, I want to invite myself to your BBQ. I’m dying to see Meeshi’s class performance since I couldn’t make it myself…Oh, yeah, I also want to see Susan’s and your performance at Monsters…Send me e-mail…

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Shawn Hanna on Thursday, April 29, 1999 - 10:32 pm: Edit

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to understand my obsession with the dance. With activities that have captured my passions there are moments I strive for when there are no struggles with the details, the footwork, muscle strength, rhythm, etc. and there isn't anything left but the passion.

At that point, any and all worries fall by the wayside and, for the duration of the song (bump run, wave..), "well that is beyond happiness, that is bliss".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ron Bloom on Friday, April 30, 1999 - 02:10 pm: Edit

wow, Michael waxing poetic. Well-said.

Note that he didn't mention SHOES. Jeez.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Meeshi on Thursday, May 06, 1999 - 03:26 pm: Edit

As usual, I'm joining into this conversation "unfashionably" late. If these thoughts don't seem as inspired as previous messages, it's because my Writing Muse has taken a temporary leave of absence. I'm daring to express my opinions SOLO, without her gentle guiding hand. Wish me luck.

Michael, wooowww! I didn't know you had all these thoughtful insights brewing in your head. Maybe you're the one who's kidnapped my Writing Muse. Anyway, I agree with everything you think, feel and instinctively know about this dance (nods to you, o eloquent one). The music, the challenge, the communication, the joy, the people...ditto, ditto, ditto! It's hard to know how to add anything to what you've said. That's probably why there have been no insightful posts after yours (sorry, Shawn). Anyhow, in the true spirit of an "essay" (Latin for "to try"), I will try to do my best.

Frankie Manning talks about each dance being a 3-minute love affair (or more accurately, love triangle) between you, your partner and the music. "Which do you love the best?" he would often say. In retrospect, the quest to comprehend the nature of this love triangle, the Lindy Holy Trinity, has been my impetus to spend countless dollars and hours studying this dance. It is one of the keys to understanding my obsession with the Hop.

The quest is a three-part journey beginning with the first link of the Lindy Trinity, yourself. Any kind of dance will bring up body issues about yourself, particularly for men. We have to look like we've got it together, before we do anything in public. But being a beginner in Lindy, or any dance form, involves a certain amount of looking foolish, making mistakes and goofing up. Those that have picked up the dance quickly, in general, don't mind making fools of themselves. Secondly, unlike musicians, your instrument is your body. You can't hide behind a drum or a saxophone. You are vulnerable (body hang-ups, rhythmic dorkhood and all) for the world to see. I like to think of dance as the Great Equalizer. It doesn't matter how much money you have or what clothes you wear (oops, maybe for some of you it does), the impression you make depends solely on how your boogie to the beat.

While the first part of the journey involves wrestling the issues of body self-esteem, rhythm and footwork, the second part of the journey involves learning how to relate to and dance with another person, your partner. Even with all the playing around, Lindy is still primarily a partner dance. Learning how to lead didn’t come easily for me, as with any dancer who is used to moving on his own and creating his own momentum. I don’t think I was able to lead a good swing out until just a few months ago. The fact that you are connected to another person just changes the whole physics of it all.

I could go on and on about the importance of developing connection in the Hop, but suffice it to say, it is a never ending challenge to not only play with the physical forces created by dancing with another, but also deal with the fact that you’re dancing with another living, breathing organism with an equal sense of will and self-determinism. The famous scientist, Gregory Bateson, founded the burgeoning field of cybernetics to better explain complex social systems, because unlike the classical social models based on the Newtonian physics of inanimate objects, social systems involve very animate objects with perhaps conflicting and contradictory objectives and points of view.

Oops, my scientific "shadow" side slipped out for a moment, let me put him back in his cage. Ok, there. Now where were we. Oh yes. In practical terms, an important road on my journey to leaderhood was to learn how to listen and respond to the follower, to find out how she likes to move and play, and to give up single-minded control over where I thought the dance was going to go. I know it’s hard, guys, to give up control, but the sheer adventure of the unexpected is well worth it.

Which leads me to the third and final part of the quest, the music. What attracted me to this dance was not the fashion, not the scene, not even the friendly people, it was the music…good, soulful jazz music. I’ve always loved jazz music, but when I found out that you could dance to it, I was hooked! At the heart of jazz music and Lindy is the African aesthetic of improvisation. This is what Lindy has in common with Salsa (another Afro-inspired dance) and what sets it apart from the other European partner dances. The word "jazz" is rooted in the Congolese slang for "making love". When you make love, you don’t go through the same sequence of motions or steps every time. You improvise, see how she feels, respond by moving more quickly or by slowing down. In short, you’re continually adjusting and responding to each new ever-changing moment.

My goal in dancing Lindy is to gain enough mastery over my technique and leading skills so that I can "make love" with my partner, so that I can respond and adjust to any sudden changes in my partner’s steps or in the music. Every dance become a new adventure with a new partner and a new song. What keeps me addicted to Lindy are those fleeting "perfect moments", those glimpses of when I am able to put my ego aside, transcend the technique and the steps, and fully become one with my partner and the music. It’s a Holy Union. After such dance, I honestly cannot even remember what I did or lead. All that remains is a feeling of joy and gratefulness for being alive and sharing that moment. With practice, patience, and an ever-opening heart, I hope to approach every dance as if it had a "perfect moment" waiting to be revealed and savored.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Shawn Hanna on Thursday, May 06, 1999 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Ahh, Meeshi. A criticism of one's attempt to understand the personal motivation and goals behind wanting to dance is a harsh criticism indeed.

Insight and originality are tough to come by, and I would hate to think posting to this board requires one-upsmanship in order to make a contribution. While I didn't have the time to read through all of your treatise on "To Hop or Not to Hop", I am certain it is a valuable contribution, regardless of the new insight it might or might not offer!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ron Bloom on Friday, May 07, 1999 - 03:49 pm: Edit

and Mr. Meeshi also didn't say anything about SHOES. Ha.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Meeshi on Friday, May 07, 1999 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Oh yeah, Ron--

I forgot about the shoes. Though I enjoy dancing in my sneakers, I truly adore the spectator shoes I got from Champion Ballroom, they have suede bottoms and a weighted bar that slightly shifts your forward to the balls of your feet. And they weigh next to NOTHING. They are by far the best dance shoes I have ever worn. Guys, throw your Bleyers away and invest in these shoes. Your feet will thank you.

p.s. I also have another Lindy confession. Since I started swing dancing, I've developed a penchant for felt hats. Wheeeeww, now I can go out with a clear conscience. Thanks, Ron.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Smoothe (Smoothe) on Wednesday, June 02, 1999 - 12:52 am: Edit

Subject:
Re: Swing out
Date:
Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:48:13 EDT
From:
Rime56@aol.com
To:
swing@UCSD.Edu


Hi my name is Rizza
Im a Lindy hop/swing fan
and for my 10 page final report i will be writng about lindy hop (just lindy
to narrow down things for my paper)
and in part of my paper i wanted to inculded actual responses about lindy hop
from people in todays society
i was wondering if you could help me out by giving me the email addresses of
lindy hop lovers....esp those involved in the swingn/lindy club at
UCSD.....if you cant send me the email addresses...i was hopiong you could at
least forward these questions to those lindy dancer and have them email their
responses to me....if you can..thanks..if you cant...thanks ne ways...here
are the questions:

1. Why do you think swing is so popular now? Why is it exisitng all over
again? Why is it so alive in our society today? (you can generalize your
answers)

2. How does lindy hop affect you personally, as a dancer, a student, a
friend, a family member, a worker, etc.?

3. Why did you chose to teach (if you do teach), start up or bring back lindy
hop (if you are part of some organization contibuting to the craze for
lindy/swing)?

4. What new styles of lindy hop is happeing now? For instance...its been
siad there a new emerged style of lindy called hip hop lindy...is that
true...and what is like.
Also if you know of any other new kinds of lindy, please add and elaborate.

5. What kind of fashion wear is worn today by lindy hoppers?

6. Who are the music artists (past and present) that are most popular in the
lindy/swing scene today?

if theres anything else that you think would be interesting for my paper,
please fill free to type it down.

Also please state: Name (optional), age, school, organization name, whether u
are a student/dancer or coordinator/dancer, how many years u have been
dancing lindy hop, and any other background related to swing or lindy
pertaing to you.

Thanks so much for your time and help...I do understand finals are coming
up....so a BIG HUGE thanks to those who send me responses....

Sincerely, Rizza
Email: Rime56@aol.com

PS: if can please reply as sson as possible....or at the latest by this
sunday....i know this maybe be asking of alot..but it would really help me
out...as well as strenthen my knowlege about the lindy society today.
THANKS!!!!!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By HopMichael on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 04:54 pm: Edit

For another take on Swing, here's the college senior paper as written by Elizabeth-Ann at Randolph-Macon Woman's College in Virginia. (originally spotted on Yehoodi)

http://www4.rmwc.edu/earowlison/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ron on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 05:17 pm: Edit

I skimmed some sections, read the last section/conclusion. She makes a few good points.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ron on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 05:19 pm: Edit

I wish I could have written easy college papers like that. I had papers like "The effect of non-linearities on structural damping in large space structures"...


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