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Karen mentioned in one of the discussions that it would be great to have a weekend, daytime, outdoors dance, like SF's Lindy in the Park. Does anyone have a clue how to make this happen? My work week is crazy-hectic, and it would be so nice to have more of a chance to dance on the weekends. But I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how to organize something like that, but it seems like someone should.... Kate |
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When Britt, Isgard, and I first went up to San Francisco for a weekend of dancing we came back all fired up about starting something like SF's Lindy in the Park here in San Diego. I think the problem we ran into was not being able to find somewhere with a suitable surface where we could have a regular dance. I personally can't dance on rough concrete - it's just too hard on my feet. I think Isgard found somewhere in Mission Beach that looked like a possibility but I haven't checked it out. Anyone know of a good location? I think we already ruled out Balboa Park - no smooth surfaces. |
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the difficulty with san diego is that you need permission and liability insurance to hold any dance outside. val and i found this out while organizing swing break sd. it is more difficult than it seems, unless you are planning on breaking some rules. (which i personally don't want to be responsible for) |
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I've danced in the mall at Mission Valley Center, out in front of the movie theater ticket booth. It's really smooth. As for insurance, if the SDLHS joined the IDA (International Dance Association) they would have inssurance for all of their events no matter where they were held ... really cheap,too, I might add. By the way, Kate, Chris has all the info on joining. Then all you would have to do is get permission from the Mall..... Another decent dance space is that gazebo-stage in the park in Normal Heights where they have musicians playing at the Adams Ave Street Fair and the Roots Festival. I think it's on 35th, just off of Adams Ave. The side walk around it isn't too bad, either. Oh, and the dance space around the gazebo-stage in Seaport Village (south end?) is decent , too. |
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The mall probably won't fly. Some of you know that, a few months back, I tried to get something set up for Saturday afternoons at UTC. But the event-manager bitch gave me the run-around before finally telling me they weren't interested in allowing swing dancing. So... you can try again if you want, but anything associated with Westfield Shopping Malls probably isn't going to get you far. |
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what about renting the floor at Catamaran like July 4th? |
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About 4-years ago I use to hold a Lindy in the Park in My Trolly Park in Normal Heights. The best part about it was the impromptuness of it. No Insurance No Paperwork.....We all just met! It was Fun! Around 20 people would show. Shy dancers would show up and watch through the bushes until I dragged them out and matched them up with someone. Summertime works best (Stays dark longer) I just show up with my CD Boom Box and let it run! Smooth Concrete Grassy areas to practice lifts & things. I'll Start it again in May. How Bouts That? 7:00 to 9:30 (Neighbors like it to end around 10). It's not a "high exposure" park as far as a lindy bombing type of thing goes; but that's how I personally like it. More of a practice/Fun atmosphere. No lessons,No organization, just word of mouth and a consistancy that dancers can count on. Then afterwards y'all have to go to the "Flame" down the street. |
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re: "Lindy in the Park" at Balboa Park -- why not do it in the Organ Pavillion, just like SF does in the bandshell? |
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Yeah, Sean, that would be the perfect place to have it but the concrete is too rough - well, it's too rough for me anyway. |
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san fran's lindy in the park is held during the day, basking in the sun (if there is any) and enjoying the feel of dancing in the afternoon. dancing outside at night is cool, but like you said it has to end early. i'd like to have and outdoor afternoon event, and i spent some time thinking about how to plan it. but, as most of you have noticed, san diego is not very accepting of dances. there is this whole dance = rave idea that is floating around. businesses tend to think we will be destructive and cause a riot vs what we really do - have "good clean" fun. also, if someone organizes it then they pretty much become responsible for keeping it running. so, to do this we'd have to... 1)find a smooth surface 2)get permission to use the area 3)figure out who will be in charge we would need someone to be classified as the "organizer" in order to even be given permission to use the space, put a name on the insurance policy (or who's responsible if something happens), and so forth. i know that it is fun to just have the idea that everyone will show up and do their part, but on paper there needs to be a "head honcho" and if you are classified as that, then you need to be prepared to be responsible for whatever happens. maybe there is an easier way of doing it than i have noticed, but as far as i can tell it will be hard work. |
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I faint if I exert myself in the sun. |
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I love Sean's idea of the organ pavillion! Doesn't the raised stage have a wooden floor? How do you get permission to have events at Balboa park. Would joining this dance association make it easier? Has the Lindy society had a dance at Balboa park before? Anyone know what it takes? Certainly this would be a bit more difficult but plenty of clubs and groups have weekly events at the Park, seems like there should be a system set up already to handle people like us who want a space once a week. The only unusual part about our request would be that it was an outdoor space we wanted. |
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Yes, many of us have looked into Balboa Park over the years. A lot of hurdels to jump, Lindy Society for many reasons voted not to formally belong to the dance organization, a whole lot of red tape, etc. (to explain quickly) And to top it off they don't allow groups to bring amplified music into the outdoor areas of the park. Great Idea though Sean! |
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Sean, Do you play Boogie-Woogie Piano by chance? |
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I went to San Francisco in February and danced at their Lindy in the Park. I too got all fired up. I've talked to a few people in San Diego. I've also been talking to Ken Watanabe (One of the guys doing the SF LitP). Ken gave me a long email of great advice. I've contacted the Park Rangers at Balboa Park and talked to Mitch. He sounded really nice and didn't sound discouraging at all. He referred me to the Cultural Arts Manager. I'm waiting for her to return my call now. Hopefully she will be just as encouraging. I was hoping we could have something like San Francisco's Lindy in the Park. SF LitP has a webpage, check it out: http://www.lindyinthepark.com/ |
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Thank you! :-) Kate and NancyAnne, I don't think I've had a chance to meet and dance with either of you yet. Please try to flag me down at some point, so that can be corrected. There aren't that many of us 6'2" folks around, so I'm relatively easy to find. NancyAnne: I haven't played much boggie-woogie piano stuff recently other than a little "Bumble Boogie" that I was futzing around with. I do play quite a bit of jazz, a little improv, and a whole lot of old 20's-40's era musicals, jazz, blues and swing. I love both listening to and playing boogie-woogie, though. Why do you ask? |
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MichelleC, Any results from your phone call? E-mail me. I don't have your current address. -HopM |
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This is GREAT! If we can find the place and get permission, I think we can rotate the responsibility for being there with boom box and music so that one or two people don't end up tethered. Let me know if I can do anything to help. I'd be happy to try to talk to a manager type who has exhausted one person already. Maybe The GAP will sponsor us and help us through the hoops. In any case, persistence pays. We should be able to convince folks about our "good, clean fun" factor. Oh, and I certainly vote for the smoothest surface. |
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"We should be able to convince folks about our "good, clean fun" factor." Hate to be a pessimist on this one, but if this were the case, The mayor would have been more supportive of the whole under-18-gotta-have-a-parent-present thing that we tried to change last year, And we wouldn't have had the Claytons shut down either. San Diego has some of the lamest and stricted rules on the books. |
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I really hate to burst everyones bubble but I have already done a lot of research into this idea of lindy in the park. Working for the city of San Diego I thought maybe I could get some special "IN" and special permission but alas when it comes to public dancing/parties the Police departments Vice squad and public parks division is un-waivering. The way it stands now the city ordance states no group may gather in a public forum (park) greater than 50 in number without a permit purchased from the city. which includes insurance. If music is to be played live or otherwise, sound system or boom box, a noise permit must be purchased if noise level exceeds 80 decibels greater than 50 ft. This is about the volume level of a loud conversation, (not even close enough for dancing at the levels we are acustom to). So by the letter of the law doing some sort of planned outside event would be a major undertaking, requiring at least 2 permits and substantial cost. Dont get me wrong if someone wants to organize and do an outside dance at the organ pavillion or other park I will certainly participate. I just think realistically unless someone wants to put out a lot of money it just wont happen. Which brings us to the idea and concept of just doing it without permits and showing up by word of mouth. The only thing that would happen is if someone (John q Citizen, Park employee) called to complain to the Police, a patrol officer would show up and at the most outside worse would "ask" us to disperse. (If cops can avoid paperwork for any reason they will, and citing anyone for dancing in public is way to time consuming and labor intensive to cite and if you showed up in court to fight it and forced the officer to show up to court on their day off you would more than likely get it dissmised-very easy to do. So officers are very motivated not to cite. So it is highly unlikely we would get cited.) If Lindy in the park is ever going to happen it is going to have to be without permits and by word of mouth, and portable boom boxed, and by the letter of the law be illegal. Which kinda sounds cool, to be so "swing kid'ish". With the internet and word of mouth I believe a very large motivated and fun dance group could show up at the park and dance. Maybe no one will complain, maybe we will draw a crowd, maybe the park ranger wont mind, there are a lot of ifs...But my experience working with San Diegos finest the worse probable thing that would happen is the cops would say "Ok you guys break it up". I think as a community we could have Lindy in the park like San Fran....We just need to do it!! |
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Meeshi and I were discussing this after Clayton's Friday night. He thinks the "key" to it's success is the dance floor, i.e. a portable dance floor like what we brought to the Catamaran on the 4th of July. He felt that many who have danced on a surface like concrete, brick, etc., and felt the pain the morning after, would be more enthusiastic about a nice dance floor outdoors. Based on the posts above, especially Mark's, a portable floor is the key because it will allow us to choose a location that's not necessarily a public centerpiece. (Although I do feel that a very visible, public place with lots of San Diego heritage and charm would be the preferred site). A portable floor is expensive and a lot of work to move and set up, but it would insure we could dance outdoors when and where we want. Hopefully, as we continue to "brainstorm" about it we'll come up with a solution that will have us dancing outdoors by May, 2001!!!! |
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the "lame" laws we have been speaking of are not just targeted here in san diego. actually, san fran is putting on their lindy in the park illegaly, due to laws they want to avoid. the park employees are just turning their heads, and have been since the first day of lindy in the park. i don't know if the san diego park employees would be the same way, but i vote for doing it on a whim a few times before we get anything written in stone. maybe we can find someplace that we would be accepted, or even ignored, and not have to worry about all the laws and permits and such. on the subject of renting the portable floor; i like having a smooth surface like everyone else, but if we start spending money for this then we will have to charge people to participate, or find someone to fund us. personally, i don't like the idea of either. we should keep this as an event where money is not required. if we try to charge people for this, not as many will show up. i think we should try to keep it as simple as possible |
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I'm going to have to agree with Mel, don't make this more complicated then it already is. SF's Lindy in the park is on concrete and everyone seems to have a good time. Carting in and setting up a floor would just attract unwanted attention from authorities. What we want is a gathering, which at least seems, impromptu. |
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So, it sounds like we're talking about "Lindy Bomb in the Park", which sounds fun enough. But if we keep showing up in the same place weekly we'll either be accepted, with officials looking the other way, as in San Fran, or we'll be shut down and have to look for another site. A location with smooth tile would be nice (not the bumpy kind, of course). As far as the expense of a dancefloor...there are a few in our midst who are willing to invest to purchase it, who also strongly oppose charging admission. A little help would be nice, though; say, if one person buys the floor, it would be nice if someone with a large van or pickup truck could help move it, etc. Michelle Cancel and I are looking into portable, yet powerful, sound systems that would be ideal for our outdoor lindy events. That, combined with a portable dancefloor, means we go where we want. Of course, if we could find a nice place with a suitable dance surface, the portable floor would be unnecessary and we could keep the "impromptu" appearance. But, in the 3 and 1/2 years I've been dancing, I've heard this topic come up several times as something we'd like to do. Val and Melissa put together a great exchange and the Horton Plaza thing was so fun. But after dancing on that particular surface for an afternoon, I really felt it. It's not something I would do weekly. Let's continue to ask around and keep our eyes open... |
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Yes, I concur with Jeff. I personally wouldn't return for a weekly outdoor event unless there was a portable dance floor. It isn't worth the pain of my knees, ankles and shoes. And, as Mel noted, I wouldn't want to charge anyone either! I have an idea...perhaps we could "pass the hat" and collect the money for the floor through voluntary donations! That way, we all chip in and contribute what we can, as opposed to a select few taking on the whole financial burden. It's no sweat for me to make public announcements and "pass the hat" at the Firehouse and Cafe Savoy to get things rolling. I really think the "pass the hat" idea is a good one. "Lindy in the Park" will then truly be a community-oriented venture, since we will all have a vested interest in its success. Those are my ideas. Whaddya think? |
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I hate to be a skeptic, but as soon as you say portable floor I think "hassle". You have to buy it, someone has to bring it, someone has to set it up and tear it down. I've seen how long it takes to tear those things down. You have to get the car close enough so its not much of a hassle to haul the pieces. You'll need real dedication to make it happen week after week after week. With a floor you'll look so much more "official", making it harder to get away without getting permission. On the other hand, I don't like dancing on concrete either. I once felt shooting pains up and down my body from that. ouch. But SF, LA and Chicago have outdoor events on concrete, so probably most people can live with it. |
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I think what we really need is a new "kooky's" diner. Anybody know someplace (other than corvette) with a jukebox that plays 40's and 50's? There's also the Women's PB center that only costs $20 an hour. The limitation is we can't stay late and we couldn't do a bomb, but it sure beats having responsibility for a dance floor. |
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Hey Ian, the thread is about "Dancing outdoors". |
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"What're you, a fucking park ranger now? Who gives a shit about the fucking marmot!" ...apparently Ron is now the stay on topic Police. |
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When I was up in Berkeley we had Lindy on Sproul every saturday, and we danced on concrete and it was fine, in fact really fun. It was great to dance outside in the sun, and usually the same crew showed up each week and we went to lunch after. We had a boom box and a little rechargable generator (which if no one has I think we can get for about $100) and whoever wanted to just DJed (or we all brought our favorite CDs). If we have to move around to avoid the permit probelm, that'd be fine. It even sounds fun, we could dance on the boardwalk in PB where it widens just south of garnet, or at seaport village just north of the food area, by the fountain at balboa park, in front of hardrock at horton plaza, there are so many spots around if people can just deal with concrete. So my question is, can we get the stuff together, namely a boom box, a generator, and a buch of CDs, and if I named a spot for next weekend, even if people didn't think it was ideal, would anyone show up? |
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Have you looked at any school grounds? Some school tenis courts or play areas have nice smooth services. Oh, and what about that trailer-resort area on the north east side of Mission Bay (off of Grand)? They have a nice outdoor dance area with smooth concreat. I know they have bands frequently playing there for free to entertain the visitors. They might actually give permission for an on-going weekend dance event. |
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Lindy in the Park is my favorite venue in SF because it's outside, but the concrete there is really smooth, even slick in some places, more like tile over concrete actually. I can handle that kind of surface but anything rough - no, I wouldn't show up for it. I would also be willing to contribute to a fund for a portable dance floor, although I agree that carting something like that around would be a hassle and also might attract unwelcome attention. |
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Campland by the Bay. That's the name. |
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Hey Ron: since we've established the rules won't permit it, everyone wants someone else to be responsible for buying and carting around a wood floor which is a hassle as you pointed out, and that concrete floors are not desirable, why throw out another idea that isn't going to happen (such as the boardwalk or Horton, no offense Kate). I was offering up alternatives that actually made sense and could be begin tomorrow if desired. |
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I guess I give up. I see why this swing scene is dying. |
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we're not dead yet! Kate, don't give up, especially based on responses, or lack of responses on the forum. I think your plan sounds like the most practical so far. Michele C and Mark and others are excited, too. |
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Kate, I'm interested too. I guess I'm so busy organizing things at work, I'm not up to organized extra curricula stuff at the moment. I agree with the portable floor naysayers though. Too expensive, too work intensive. What we really need to do is find some concrete like the slab at Catalina - slick, mmmmmmm. Nat |
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Check out Campland by then Bay: Easy to get to, central lacation. Parking. Outdoors near the water. Smooth dance surface(covered, I think). Spectators. It's next to the club house, which has vending machine, etc. |
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Portable floor: No. Smooth concrete: yes. Sneakers: yes. High visibility to spectators: yes. And the rest shall follow =) Opinin', HopM |
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Campland by the Bay: Plus 10 minute walk to my place afterwards for G&T's/swim Nat |
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Shawn, I thought you'd got rid of those naff icons. |
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naff? |
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Ummm, crap, not very good, cheesy. Actually comes from Victorian times when butcher boys in London's meat markets developed "Back Slang" where they kind off reversed letters within the sylables of words. Long since gone, but "naff" stuck. It's back slang for fanny (different meaning in UKish than in Americanish). Obivously the meaning has changed from it's original. Want to know how the date for Easter is set? See, I know a myriad of cr@p, but not even anything useful enough to win at Triv. |
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Good news and not so bad news from the legal standpoint...I talked to several San Diego Police officers today and the consensus amongst them is as follows... "If you were driving around and saw a group of people swing dancing in the park what would you do".....most common answers - 1)Nothing, 2)Stop and watch for a bit, and 3)drive on by. "If you responded to the park for a report of disturbance excessive noise, or crowd(loitering) and saw the aforementioned what would you do?"....most common answers - 1)Ask you to turn it down there was a complaint, 2)You guys need to break it up, 3)say nothing and log complaint as frivolous....some answers even included *thats cool where can I learn, *do you guys do parties, and *is this a dance club? When asked what might be the worst possible reaction...answers included..1)might consider confiscating radio/dj equip or dance floor(for repeated failure to turn down/break it up) 2)might write a misdemeanor ticket for Disturbing peace (if you really pissed them off). So thats the worst possible scenario according to the beat cops I spoke to. But the general consensus amongst the law enforcement community is they are more concerned about Jueveniles playing LOUD headbanger/gangbanger music, drinking alcohol and using illicit drugs, and doing this all hours into the night. The idea of mature adults playing music that is 50+ years old and wearing classy vintage clothing dancing with style in the park midday is in their words "cool" and would definitley not give us a hard time. So lets Lindy in the Park...Id say hold off on any dance floor at first and maybe just once or twice a month so not as to destroy everyones knees/ankles/feet on pavement. If we behave in a mature manner and diplomatically with PD when they show up, there shouldnt be any problems. |
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Mark, you are da bomb! Thank you so much for testing the waters with the police. That was an excellent idea! Were these policemen doing the Balboa Park beat or just some random ones you came across? That might make this project an even easier one to execute! -Hop "Maybe there's hope, after all, for San Diego" Michael |
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Well police officers are all the same breed same as fire fighters...they werent specifically zone 1 (downtown beat)...but they all pretty much behave the same... On a different note..I was think on saturdays around noon time or so FM 88.3 does a swing time radio show and I figure if volume is the problem we could have as many people who can grab a portable radio bring one we would have plenty of volume if all tuned to the same station.. |
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This is GREAT. I think this swing community grooves like crazy.I'm up for anything. I like the transistor radio ideadefinitely bomber shoes for concreteall we have to do is choose and post the dates and venues. Everyone who has an idea for a spot should find out exactly what the "floor" is like and suggest a time. I bet a lot of us will show up. I'll be there if I'm in town!What's the best surface in Balboa park?Karen |
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I found a spot that I've told ron about. Its in mission bay, a concrete slab in the middle of a wide grassy area, lots of free close parking, and since mission bay is intended for groups to gather I doubt anyone would kick us out. The concrete is fairly smooth, and with baby powder would be slick. Its not huge but a good size, about as big as half the firehouse. |
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Oooh. Where is this promising site? Is it on the beach? Off the street? |
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"LINDY BY THE BAY"!! ...fits San Diego, doesn't it? And, now that I think about it, I've been a member of the Hilton Resort for the past 8 years or so, and no one has ever hassled the roller-skate dancers that have their CD players cranked at the wall between the Hilton and the Bay. That would definitely by a cool spot. I'll talk to the GM of the Hilton and get some feedback. The sidewalk widens nicely right there and there's tons of people cruisin' the walkway year-round!!! Plus, the Hilton's restaurant with outdoor seating and firepits is right there on the Bay, too!!! This sounds like a different place than what you're talking about though, right Kate? Where's the spot you're thinking about? |
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The spot I was thinking of is a bit more to the north, its new, they put this slab in just a few weeks ago. If you exit at Clairemont Dr and head towards the bay you hit the tourist center. Its two parking lots to the south of that, about half way to the hilton. From the parking lot there is a little pathway that leads up to this weird concrete hexagon. So it isn't exactly on the water. It is smack in the middle of the grass, about 100' off the parking lot and 200' off the water. So people who didn't want to dance could sit in the grass and soak up the sun. Jeff's spot is a good one too, more open to the public eye since it is really in the flow of traffic. Either place would probably work. And if we could get the permission of the hilton, that may technically be private property and therefor legal (or at least we could claim to have thought that). So since the site problem seems to be working out, what about the power issue? 88.3 is a good idea but not as reliable as far as dancibility as CDs. Anyone heard anything about a battery? I think someone was checking in to see what kind they use at LITP? |
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How come this thread doesn't get sent to my e-mail? This sounds soooo cool! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help facilitate this activity!!! |
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What about the $100 mini generator idea? |
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I guess I was trying to avoid having to gather money together to buy anything if we can avoid it, but if people want, I can look into exactly what it will cost and be the one in charge of getting money together, and actually buying the thing. But if this is what people want me to do, you'd better post and say so, cause I'm not going to run all over town unless that seems like the plan everyone agrees on (or at least a lot of people). So if people want, I'll make up little handouts asking for donations and explaining what we have in mind, where it will be, and what we need, and leave them at the firehouse and give them to someone to take to Claytons. When we actually start holding it (and I like Jeff's Lindy by the Bay title) will just depend on when we get the money. |
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To do it, you need a good car battery, a car stereo, amplifier and speakers. That's the Third Street Swingers method. Works great. |
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I'm wondering about dates. There at least a few people going to Dallas, some to Monster's etc. Are we going for every weekend? Or should be try for alternates? How about March 17th and 31st? April 14, 28? That would get my vote, or do people prefer Sunday? I'd pitch in some money, but we can also do batteries for a test run, no? Is that not loud enough with a regular boom box? Jeff...what were you thinking of when you mentioned you were looking into an outdoor sound system? Let's motivate...the weather here is just too good to dance inside all the time. Lindy by the Bay works for me too! |
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I'd much prefer Sundays, please! |
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I think Sundays are better too. And I think you'd get more people showing up if you had it only once or twice a month. Plus it would give your knees/ankles, whatever, time to recover ;) |
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I agree with the other ladies: Sundays, twice a month. Oh my gosh, you guys! We're going to get tan and have buff legs! Yeehaw! |
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I'm up for twice a month on Sundays also. I think CDs are better, but then you need someone DJing. I think 88.3 has a "Big Band Brunch" program on Sunday. |
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Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah! More swing on the weekends. I'm all for it. Sundays sounds great. |
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Sunday afternoon dancing sounds heavenly! A wonderful substitution for my 3rd street swinger fix. |
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Sundays twice a month is good..And to start off just be basic a boom box and a group of people see how the interest is and then grow from there...besides where ever we dance there needs to be time for the local park/propriety/people to become accustomed to us... |
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Glad I asked. Seems that Sundays it is. Now all we need is to settle on when and where to start. It seems that a rotating reasonability would take the pressure off any one person. At least until we have special gear(ie generator), anyone with a boom box can "host" the event. Shall we start in April? How about the 1st, 15th, 29th? Fire Mark and I will bring the box and cd's for one of them...but he'll have to chime in here to say which one since I don't know when he's working. Also, anyone who is coming anyway and has an especially good (loud) box should bring it a long. As for the place...which do we think has the smoothest surface? We may have to go on a city tour trying out the various suggestions before the first official "LINDY BY THE BAY!" That could be fun...anyone interested? This is now off topic, but I just have to thank all of you who came out last night and really surprised me...making me feel so welcome and at home...what an amazing bunch of friends in such a short time. Thanks for the greatest birthday! Karen |
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