SwingOrama Forum

Archive through January 18, 2002

SwingOrama Forum: Swing Venues: Monday Night Swing at Neimans in Carlsbad: Archive through January 18, 2002

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Nat, I know that discounts to swing events is one of the reasons
for joining SDLHS. I joined for the T-shirt and to support anything
"Lindy" in San Diego. (Although I think it's time for me to renew.
Not sure). I do think that SDLHS giving me a discount if I'm a member
at one of THEIR OWN EVENTS is appropriate and expected. I pay them
to put on stuff, I get a discount as a contributor. Makes sense. But where's
the logic in Neiman's, The Firehouse, Clayton's, The Rocket, etc. giving
discounts to SDLHS society members? Again, to me it's like expecting
Von's to give me a discount because I have a Costco card. I pay Costco
to be a member. I ONLY get a discount at Costco, not every store in San
Diego.

Actually, I really don't care who gets a discount and who wants to give them.
I just hate the "drama and attitude" thing, and giving discounts just seems
sometimes to create different "classes" of people who expect to be treated
according to their "class" or "status" in the Lindy community.

Ya know, 99% of the time it's a "non issue", so frankly this is probably a waste
of time and energy to even discuss it. I just had a few thoughts on it. I'm done.

By Tertia (Lindyslayer) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 01:00 pm: Edit

I do agree that if you don't have your card with you, you should not receive the discount. This discussion is not going to go anywhere because there was only one specific incident that took place that was WAY out of the ordinary. If you weren't there, it would be best not to speculate on this issue, because it was a one time thing. I must say, however, that running a venue is tough, but one must always remain calm in any situation that is thrown at you.

SDLHS never asked for the discount at Neiman's. They just started doing it as a promotion, I believe for Shesha and Terra's own benefit. When you initiate things, you must be prepared for the worse, regardless of who is at fault.

By Melissa Varriano (Mel) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 01:52 pm: Edit

the firehouse and claytons do not give a discount to sdlhs members, and there is no longer a student discount either. meeshi already charges the lowest rate in san diego for a full night of dancing...only $5 (except for champion which is a special occasion and usualy has a special promotion of it's own). the only time sdlhs members use their discount at claytons is during designated sdlhs events (i think they have one every other month, or somethink like that).

personally, i think $5 is a good price for an evening of dj'd music.

By Franglaise (Hepnat) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 02:27 pm: Edit

"giving discounts just seems
sometimes to create different "classes" of people who expect to be treated
according to their "class" or "status" in the Lindy community"

Since membership of the SDLHS isn't restricted to those having attained a certain level of dance competence or infamy, but is based solely on filling out a memebership form and handing over cold hard cash, I don't see the point in your statement.

Someone throwing a prima donna is quite another point altogether.

By Lisa Conway (Lisaconway) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 02:29 pm: Edit

"I just hate the "drama and attitude" thing, and giving discounts just seems sometimes to create different "classes" of people who expect to be treated according to their "class" or "status" in the Lindy community."

This event had nothing to do with "class" distinctions Jeff. It had to do with being treated poorly by the staff/promoters of a club. Sounds like you got one side Jeff and are running with it...definitely not surprising.

By I am we Todd did (Dennis) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Hey Jeff, weren't you telling people not to form opinions based on hearsay a few months back? Were you actually there for the "incident"? Or did you just hear someone say something about it afterwards?

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Tertia, your post had good points. It's a "one time thing" as you mentioned.
And there's always two sides to an issue. "..being treated poorly" by Shesha
and Terra? Hard to believe. But we all have our bad days.

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 03:46 pm: Edit

I wasn't there. Don't really know what happened. Haven't formed an
opinion. Wasn't speaking specifically about anyone. I just have a few
ideas about minimizing confrontations at the door. I'm not "running"
with anything. "....definately not surprising". What's that about? I've
tried to always keep an open mind and add balance and unity to our
small community. We need to all just give each other a break once in
awhile, don't ya think?

By Andy (Hitman) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

so, without mentioning any names.. what did happen? Inquiring minds want to know!!

RE: Nat's "What's 'fair'in making someone who's adopted a breadline existence in order to gain an education pay the same amount as someone who's bringing in a 6 figure salary?"

Let me preface my commentary by saying that I fully support and endorse student discounts. However, I think they are a "bonus" or a "perk" and not required for fairness. In a free market society, it is completely FAIR for a person who has adopted a breadline existence to pay the same amount as a six figured person.

Even though I'm glad to do it, why should a six figured person have to subsidize extracurricular discretionary events of the impecunious (destitute)? Do I work any less hard or deserve it any less? probably, but that's beside the point ~8^)

So many people these days want something for free, just because. The fact is, in a free market society, some folks will have more than others. It's the way it goes. A student may have to forego certain extraneous pleasures for a few years while leading a more austere lifestyle. It's not unfair... it's consequences of a choice.

By Andy (Hitman) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 05:16 pm: Edit

By the same token, would it be unfair if I paid the same price for a BMW that Emmit Smith of the Dallas Cowboys paid, given the fact that he earns more in one day than I earn all year (by a longshot!?)

Should I be entitled to a discount because I'm economically challenged (with respect to him?)

By HopMichael (Mhwang) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 05:29 pm: Edit

SDLHS cards get us discounted BMW's? Where do I sign up?

-Hop "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore" Michael

By Franglaise (Hepnat) on Wednesday, January 16, 2002 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Andy, I'm obviously not eschewing the use of a sliding scale entry rate dependent on income. I was using the word "fair" because that had been used in a previous post. My underlying point was that it seems unfortuante that those more progessed and pecunous in life would quibble a student discount of a buck. I believe that society as a whole benefits from individuals pursuing education to the furthest of their (mental) ability. Yes, I as an individual fund them, through paying full cover, and through paying taxes (for school kids here, and up to and including uni students in the UK), which is I think, as it ought to be.
Yes, it's an extrcurricular activity, but I don't belive all life should cease during college years, far too risky in terms of SSHC (spontaneous student head combustion).
Prolly a far too serious reply to a lighthearted post.

By Kathleen Collins (Kathy) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 12:19 am: Edit

Have no idea what transpired for other folks at the door Monday that led to this discussion but will share what happened to me --

I am a SDLHS member but never received a card. At the door Monday night, I realized I could get a discount. While I am not a "breadline" student, I only recently completed graduate school and the prospect of a discount towards the $10 cover was appealing. I mentioned my membership -- and truly did NOT expect a discount without a card as it is my fault that I never followed-up re getting my card -- but Terra was very gracious and sweet and gave me one. I have no idea what drama was going on -- my friends and I had a great time (due in part, I think, to the fact that we did support the bar...and we were not charged for water when we ordered it with our drinks).

Call me Pollyana (or Marxist), but I think this community is great and you people are terrific. I love that you can usually recognize human frailties in each other and still accept one another. This community tries to be organized around an ethic of care and, while that will occasionally conflict with the logic of capitalism, I think it should be supported.

--Kath

By Lorien Rice on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 12:37 am: Edit

The main appeal of free market economics is that it generally leads to *efficient* outcomes, but there is nothing to ensure that those outcomes will be *equitable*. (Free market economics is designed to increase the size of the pie, but it says nothing about whether the most deserving person gets the biggest slice.) But I think this is basically a separate issue from whether or not it is fair for students to get discounts. That depends on several factors such as whether students have binding credit constraints, whether there are societal externalities to higher education, and whether people are expecting to see a higher future salary from their current investment in education. And I reckon that all of this is probably not of much interest to anybody besides a grad student in economics, and even then... not so much. More to the point, I think, is whether it helps sustain the Lindy community to make dance venues more affordable for students. I don't know the answer to that--it would depend on the elasticity of demand for lindy among students, which in turn probably depends on exactly how credit constrained they are... another fairly boring topic, in my humble opinion, but that could just be economics burn-out talking. Hopefully we can get back to talking about lindy now.

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 02:35 am: Edit

Lorien, Kathleen, Andy....WOW...I love it when you "wax" verbose,
prolific and articulate!!! The "Lindy" mind is an awesome thing, and
one of the main reasons I dance. For the most part, Lindy Hop dancers
are so intelligent, thought provocing, compassionate and interesting as
hell. You all, of course, are no exception. Great comments!!!

"Hopefully we can get back to talking about Lindy now..." What a
revolutionary concept, Lorien! Save me a dance or ten....Thanks.

Jeff

By Ron (Ron) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 09:55 am: Edit

and they dance gud!

By Lorien Rice on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Jeff, are you going to be at Champion on Saturday?

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Yes, I should be able to make it.

By HopMichael (Mhwang) on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Lorien, *gosh* you can talk economics with me anytime.

On the efficiency frontier,
-Hop "Marginal demand for Lindy" Michael

By Lorien Rice on Thursday, January 17, 2002 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Well, I'd rather dance with you than talk economics with you, but maybe we can work out some Pareto-improving compromise.

By Spawn of Satan (Melbamoose) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 10:53 am: Edit

I tried posting a couple days ago, but the internet was down.

Maybe you guys need to get together and start your own little dorky economics club? Hehehehe. Man...I don't think to be fair everyone should offer a discount. It's nice when they do. I am not a fan of people who wouldn't need to discount in the first place talking about how unnecessary they are, either.

"Krista, what did you mean by your original post?"

I was referring to a specific incident. But I don't remember you being there Jeff.
"I wasn't there. Don't really know what happened. Haven't formed an
opinion." Really?? Then why the defensive posts, Jeff? You seemed to be very intent on defending something you don't know anything about.

Whatever.

By Jeff Eldridge (Jeff) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 11:34 am: Edit

I can know a lot about something even though I wasn't an eye witness.
I meant exactly what I said, and I told you why I said it.

"I wasn't there. Don't really know what happened. Haven't formed an
opinion. Wasn't speaking specifically about anyone. I just have a few
ideas about minimizing confrontations at the door."

I did get one side of it. Based on that alone I had some "ideas about
minimizing confrontations at the door". And you're assuming that my
comments are solely relating to the specific incident that affected your
evening at Neiman's. There were lots of things going on that night
that had nothing to do with your issue. My ideas were sort of an umbrella
to cover the range of problems that seem to plague those who take all
the risks and put on these venues.

By Andy (Hitman) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 11:56 am: Edit

what was the specific incident? gossip hounds want to know! ~8^)

By Terra Marvin on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Dear All,
First off I want to apologize to any one who had a bum night at Neimans and feel that it was my doing.

I think that some people have gotten wind of a few things and I am here to set the record straight.

We have decided to stop taking discounts at Neimans on Monday nights. There were many situations that prompted this decision, not just one.

Some examples are:

People lying about being SDLHS members, I mean really lying to the point were they are calling the club SDLMHS something, now that�s a bit extreme.

"Students" who never seem to get their ID week after week after week.

People demanding two for one's because they "aren�t going to dance much".

All of this on a good night at Neimans.

Since we�ve been at Neimans, you will not find one situation where I did not give a discount to a person who "claimed" they were a part of the SDLHS club or a student. I do also always recommend that the next time they come they try to get their student ID or SDLHS club card to avoid having to be questioned again. I say it every time no matter who, no matter what. I understand that some people feel it should be enough to just say that they are one or the other, I just ask that you please understand as a promoter at the door, everyone is out to scam you, or pretend they are your best friend with the hops that they can get in for less.

Despite all of the wonderful people that do come to Neimans and support the venue, who we love and appreciate more then you'll ever know, there are always these complications. I handle them as best as I can.

Having these discounts for SDLHS members and students was suggested to us and seemed like a good idea. True, the discounts like all discounts were intended to promote our product, but it�s not worth the complication and the hassles at the door.

We will continue to offer discounts to those who are signed up for our newsletter. If the discounts will help you, you can sign up for our Swing Info Newsletter, by sending your mailing address to subscribe@swinginfo.com .

We look forward to seeing everyone this Monday to see Chicago Four. The cover charge will be $10 for all.

Thanks for Understanding,
Terra

By I am we Todd did (Dennis) on Friday, January 18, 2002 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Good god, Andy. Give it a freaking rest. Aren't you the one who's always claiming to be the voice of reason? How many hypocrites do we need on this forum?

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